It is not easy being a Hammers fan these days, so it is always nice to take a short break, from the troubled ‘here and now,’ and head off on a welcome trip down memory lane. One such opportunity is afforded to those that have access to Sky Any Time. Up until Tuesday, 7 September, they are screening a 2002 ESPN Classic documentary entitled, ‘Hero – The Bobby Moore Story,’ which is uplifting and compelling TV for all Hammers fans.
The programme documents Bobby’s family background in Barking; his rise to prominence for West Ham and England; his successful cancer treatment in the 1960s; his greatest club and international triumphs between 1964-66; the victorious 1966 World Cup campaign; the defence of the trophy in 1970 (including the Bogota bracelet incident and that classic match with Brazil); the sale to Fulham and 1975 FA Cup Final; the years of exclusion from top club management and being largely ignored by the FA; and his tragic, premature death in 1993.
The programme has some great clips of Bobby in action for West Ham and England (at the old Upton Park and Wembley) that shows not only his imperious defending and the odd goal or two scored, but also the on-pitch presence, dignity and keen sense of humour of the man.
It includes interviews with Pele, George Best, Bobby Charlton, Malcolm Allison, Noel Cantwell, Geoff Hurst, Martin Peters, Jimmy Greaves, Jackie Charlton, Harry Redknapp, Terry Venables, Alan Ball, Alan Mullery, Mike Summerbee and Jonathan Pearce. They hail Bobby Moore’s greatness as a defender and captain and confirm that his leadership was crucial in 1966 in capturing the ultimate prize in world football. But they also talk of Bobby’s likeable personality and genuine, down to earth, modesty. His personality is further explored in some very emotional, and heart felt, interviews with his family and close friends like Jimmy Tarbuck.
It is a fine tribute to West Ham and England’s greatest ever player and captain. It must be good because it almost made me forget West Ham’s current troubles, if only for 60 minutes or so! You may already have seen it, but check it out again, if you get a chance.
Now from the sublime to the ridiculous, some tabloids yesterday reported that Avram Grant has just three matches to save his job! I do not believe that things are at that stage, just yet. Grant is the appointment of the new owners and they are likely to continue supporting him in the short term. However, if we are still struggling in late November-early December, then I have no doubt that the issue of a managerial change will then move up the agenda.
David Sullivan was also reported yesterday as stating that certain of the club’s overseas players wanted a move from West Ham in the summer, but acceptable offers were not forthcoming! He alleged that this had resulted in those players showing an alleged lack of application and effort so far this season. He correctly suggests that those players need to accept their situation and play themselves in to a move in January! Ok, fair enough, but what I do not understand is why a public statement needs to be made on this matter. Surely it is best dealt with internally, by the manager and his staff, in liaison with the board? I sincerely hope that this is not the first of a new series of high profile and controversial public comments from the board?
Finally, there were also reports that West Ham’s proposed move for free agent, Jeremie Aliadiere broke down because the player suffered a knee injury in a trial match for the club. Apparently, West Ham have accepted their responsibility for his medical expenses, but have denied that a deal had been concluded. Much as I am very sorry for the player, being injured and out of contract, the fact is that it is fortunate for the club that it happened before he signed a contract, rather than afterwards. The last thing we want is to pay the wages of another player with a long-term injury. Tough, but true!
SJ. Chandos.
Where do you live SJ? you always seem to post deep into the night!
I have ‘Hero’ on DVD and it’s quite a nice doc, some great footage of the great man!
Nice piece SJ…but I am afraid that all we have right now is the past. The inspiration of Moore is lost on many of today's players.
As for some players wanting moves to foreign clubs, if they played like they should and West Ham was a winning club then these same players would not want to move anywhere – nothing is better than playing in a winning team. It is hard to recover from a slow start…all we can look forward to is hope, once that vanishes, well, bring out the old DVDs and videos!
hero is a fine documentary about a true great,modern day players who are overpaid,overhyped and undertalented can only dream of standing in his shadows.a true gentleman who i was privilaged to meet on a couple of occassions when i was a young lad.also gobshite sullivan could learn a thing or to from bobby about class
Great Piece SJ and thanks for bringing our attention to this. I'm now in the process of downloading the documentary which means I should be able to watch it in about 1/2 an hour!!
Like you say – It will be nice to have a warm feeling inside about West Ham for a change, one that hasn't been there for far too long. what we would do for a Moore in the West Ham team now eh – don't think he would let all these overpaid Jokers get away with playing the way they are. If only Upson was half the man Moore was…
NC
What would we do for a Billy Bonds in the side ,he lifted the team and the fans more the Bobby could ever do! Bonzo was incredible ,ask Chelsea Chopper Harris or Mickey Droy he put them in his top pocket! Mooro was a calming influence.Paolo Di Canio was our 100% overseas Diamond!
Grant has three matches to save his job? Unlikely I agree and I can't see any circumstance in which he would be in big trouble unless we are bottom at Christmas. There's no point having a manager for 3 or 4 games and expecting him to impress himself on the situation in that time – then expecting another manager to come in with little budget and no opportunity to spend it. The right time to assess Grant will be December, so that when the transfer window opens the man who will be in charge for the rest of the season can play his own hand.
As for the Chairman's comments – when will he learn? Denis Thatcher once wisely said that he preferred to say nothing and be thought a fool than to open his mouth and remove all doubt. A lesson perhaps Mr Sullivan might heed in future.
To suggest publicly that Behrami is 'not playing for the club' because he wants to leave hardly raises the player's value – It's not a secret that he wants to go back to mainland Europe and that his wife is not happy in London. However, I don't think Behrami is the type of player who won't do his job for alterior motivations. And who else wants to go? Behrami is the only one that I definately know of and he's been very honest about wanting to go and why.
Is it possible that the 'foreign' peice is a red herring here ? … Parker hasn't signed a contract extension, he hasn't performed to anywhere near his standards and when we have gone behind he and Upson liase with Avraam with total distain … Berahmi simply hasn't played and if we are talking of right prices … how was it we sold Diamante for a £4.2m loss and gave Daprella away for free ? can someone enlighten me as it doesn't add up … I mean Diamante was told at the end of the season he wasn't wanted, what was Berahmi told ? it is all just another day in the spotlight for a shambles of a chairman …
Can i also add, Sullivan stated the new signing were not fit to play ? … this also is flawed … TBH played against Oxford, then for Israel but hasn't made the match day squad ? … Piquionne has looked steady but never played at Manure ? Reid has fallen on his arse but can play for NZ ? and why play Barrera against Oxford and tire him out then not have him fit for the Manure game but allow him to go and play for Mexico … he talks of changes but it seems none of Zola's signing are allowed to play. Daprella, Berahmi, Diamante Kovac and Da Costa … makes you ask the question … who's signing who and who's picking the team …
Regarding Avram Grant, I dont know if any of you listen to the pod cast 'Stop Hammer Time' but Rob Sheppard West Ham Fan and journalist had some interesting yet obvious things to say regarding the mounting pressure that could be coming Avram's way if we do not get a result against Chelski. He went on to say what a good job Alan Pardew did in his time and how he loved being West Ham manager, interestingly he is now out of work!
Personally as much as I agree Pards did a great job and I never wanted him to be sacked anyway it is important that Avram gets time to get it right after all G&S picked him and they will claim they have a history of appointing good managers throughout their businesses. My worry is how much time?
Iain, SJ, last season you had inside access to Duxbury, what are the chances of getting an interview with Gollivan or Brady in an questions and answers from this forum ? … The finances, the summer signings and departures and the Olympic stadium to name a few …
all they say is lies anyways.
Is it not worth trying tho, there are still people on here who have total faith in them, no heads up just some straight questions … even do it as a podcast so you can see there reactions to the fans thoughts …
I agree tom, get some straight questions and maybe again later in the season for an update.
Long time no chat Bobby, how are you … i am glad we are on the same wavelength … listen to them and then go back for a progress update …
Pointless all 3 cant lie straight in bed.
Tom there are few things I would like more than the chance to take Golivan and Miss Brady to task over the clubs finances and the figures on the new stadium move!
These are all things Daniel Levy came out and showed the Spuds fans … why are our own board so secretive and continually going back on pledges … the main pledge in particular about no athletics track … and Karen brady's latest costings are at £190m …. where and why for god sake ..
£190miilion is just madness – we could build a new stadium for that!!! Does anyone know what happened about the plans to develope the old post office site???
NCH, there are some post from Celtic lower down that are frightening … if Gollivan had a proven past you'd say whatever, however it paints a frightening picture …
Iain – some months ago you ran a survey and published two parts of the results but, as I recall, there were questions about our new owners and I don't remember seeing the answers to those although I stand open to correction!
Can I just add, as much as I have no doubt Avraam has been found out sacking him before we have played 10 games even, would be a silly move let alone another three, however what annoys me is everyone keeps comparing our points tally against these teams from last term, well what was Pardew's record ? and Curbishley's … if we want to stay in this league and compete should we accept a game is lost before it has started because they beat us last season … I know what Scotty Parkers thoughts would be … we have a more than capable chance of stinging Chelski at the weekend if we get the selection, tactics and formation correct … settling for a three or four goal defeat before a ball is kicked is ludicrous … no wonder we can't fill the Boleyn …
It will be interesting to see if TBH is in the squad, if Da Costa starts … or he goes with the new arrivals of Jacobsen and Reid up against Cole, Malouda Anelka and Drogba … I wouldn't even play Cole, i play Piquionne up top with Dyer behind him to run at Terry from deep and expose him, just like the germans did at the WC … we have a chance … but as sure as day Avraam will go out to contain them …
Tom I personally dont think Avram is or ever was the right man for the job. With that view I dont see the point of giving him 7 more games to lose before bringing in a new manager and giving him and even bigger mountain to climb.
Sullivans talk about how our season starts in October is one of the most laughable comments ever made in football. It's all well and good saying our season starts in October but unfortunately everyone else started their season in August and started picking up points straight away.
If he is under the impression that we have the quality needed to comeback from being adrift at the bottom of the table and get ourselves to safety playing 2 months less of a season than those around us than he is even more of an idiot than I give him credit for and thats saying something.
The irony of the statement is that if we were a good enough team to give those teams around us a 2 month head start and then overhaul them then we would have a good enough team to take points from our first 7 games!
This is yet another example of Sullivan saying anything just to get his face in the paper.
The trouble is Celtic you and I are in the minority … I was pro GFZ, I thought he was dealt a poor hand and if monies were made available he would have in time been our man … but alas no Gollivan wanted a Yes man and went and got him … however, unless he changes his spot after 10 games he will be gone, for me I hope we lose more so that the fans starting asking questions … why didn't they balance the squad ? where is £190m coming from for the Athletics stadium ? you could go on for ever … unfortunately some of the threats are not worth persuing ..
Tom, Can I join your minority? It's no secret that I did not want GZ to leave, and feel that Grant is a poorer choice, as well as being an expensive one what with compensation etc. I was willing to give him a chance, but he has failed to impress so far ,and looks like a yes man to me. Coupled with the owners apparent vendetta against all Zola's signings, If I was Scottie I'd want out.
I think in two months time the train will be full mate so hop on …. this is Gollivans squad, it is his mangaer and it is his prices that were paying, for a far cheaper product where ever you watch the game from … I have no doubt things were bad and somethings needed addressing … failing to offload certain players and retain others whilst taking a huge loss on some is silly but some of the signings begger belief … So who's choice were they … Piquionne said in the press Pompey excepted the highest bid after he didn't want to come because of the manager … TBH slated him from his Chelski days … the young lad Stoke signed said West ham were never an option because of the manager and diamante was discarded before ever kicking a ball in anger … so if I were Scotty i'd be on the phone to jamie redneck engineering a move across town to a club with a chairman that opens the books for the fans to read … a chairman who is happy to engage and respect his fans wishes over a new stadium …
What is this obsession with Pardew with some people on here?
He did a very good job for a few seasons and then he almost sent us down. He didn't want Tevez and the other one….which was fine but he then threw his toys out refused to play them and only helped to create tensions in the squad. He also allowed players to gamble on the way to games. Some players were reported to have lost over 50K on the bus to away games!!! No wonder our away form was so shit!
And before everyone goes on and on about him getting us promoted and getting us within a minute of winning the FA cup. We were favourites to get promoted and should have secured automatic promotion but didn't. and the FA cup run we draw very favourable fixtures.
Went to Charlton spent a fortune and what did he achieve?
I think he's quite a good manager but West Ham legend? get him back? come on! I'd put him on par with Phil Brown and no-one on here would let him near West Ham with a barge pole!
Did Pardew refuse to play them? Tevez wasn't played because he wasn't fit. Macherano was gone by January because he couldn't speak English and didn't want to be at the club.
There are also a lot of nasty rumours floating about over Pardew's departure – mostly personal stuff, plus that the dressing room was desperate place where huge amounts of money was won and lost on the turn of the cards with one player accused of being a professional card sharp. We cannot really consider returning to Pardew unless we know that a lot of what was circulated at the time is definately not true.
There's a lot of rumours about money, players wives, players on drugs. but he had definitely lost the dressing room it was so clear to see. He was probably given a bit too much time to try turn things around. I think its absolutely disgraceful that a lot of fans harp on about the greatness of Pardew where as Curbishley is openly criticised.
He left under a very big cloud….worst run of defeats….losing to Chesterfield in the league cup?! I'm sure not all the rumours are true but where there's smoke……
Hi Tony
Pardew played mullins over Macsherano so i rest my case, but i think the reason was that we had Reo-coker and his bad boy brothers running the dressing room,as Pardew had lost to that lot.
I didn't see Barcleona bidding 16mill for Mullins
I'm sorry but Pardew was a joke.
Roy, If I remeber correctly it took an awful lot for Curbs to unbutton the bab bentley brigade … what I will say for Pardew … he brought us up on a budget and Curbs made a tiday profit on it … what makes you believe we are £100m in debt ? if I am correct didn't we make even on the buying and selling front ? …
I also thought Mullins had been superb in the 2006 season … but I just don't think we were set up for mascherano or tevez … we were al about power and pace …
Mate Mascherano is Mr Power and Tevez is Mr Pace.
They should have walked into that team
They didn't though Chris … Tevez wasn't set up to play off Deano or teddy … Marlon wouldn't pass to him either, it was only Bobby zamora that sussed him out … Mascherano had everything Mullins didn't … quality distribution for a start but again reokoko the clown tried to by pass him …
Chris, I wasn't calling for his return, only asking about his record … what teams look at the matches and write themselves off before going out to play … how can our season not start til October ? … no club, no decent manager and no decent board would ever except writing off 6 straight games … then expect to flip over and be ok …
i agree with those who are saying this fuss about pardew is nonsense.
at one point it was clear he totally lost the dressing room.
beofre our 4-0 drubbing at bolton i remenber we did not kick a shot at goal for 6 consecutive matches!
if there was someone who was getting us on the right track it was curbishley. we won 3 of the first 6 games before he was sacked and playing some good football.
do not get me wrong. i do not want him back. i still beleive grant will do a good job for us. our positioning on the pitch is better than last season, i am sure results will start showing soon.
Veldom, I defiy any manager to put a side out under the circumstances GFZ ended up working under … his first season showed great potential … had he had the money this summer I believe we would have resolved the balancing issues … however it looks very much like Gollivan were making the signing for themselves ..
pardew was a good manager.
everyone at some stage goes through a bad spell.
Unlike Zola who went continually through a bad spell.
Curbs I thought was all right,bit negative thou.
Apart from finishing 9th chris – to be fair.
Pards had his Achilles heel in the way he created segregated groups within the squad – amongst other things. I have no gripes with the way that he had us playing – with pace and power. A good manager, however, needs to be a good man manager & that he was not.
Completely agree Gav, for me a combination of Pards and Zola would be ideal, Zola did brilliantly with individual players and Pards was very good on the pitch.
I still think DiCanio is the ideal man to manage the club but there is no way the Daves would appoint him, they would be too afraid of him as they could never control him and the fans would always take his side.
My biggest dream is to one day see PDC in charge at the Boleyn.
Bold call Celtic … but you are right with your reasons for why it won't happen under Gollivan … Avraam is nothing but a puppet, Curbs was good for mid table mediocraty and some drab football at times but really suffered the boo boys and Pardew simply lost the dressing room through the baby bentley mobsters … sometime you don't know a good thing until its gone … for me that was GFZ and SC …
DiCanio would be a bad appointment. TBH I'm actually quite surprised you'd suggest it Celtic.
He'd be like Zola but probably worse. Though if he never selected Spector he'd straight away be better
PDC wouldn't let the likes of Spector inside the gate, let alone on the pitch.
The most successful era of my time as a Hammers fan was after we signed PDC, finished 5th and qualified for Europe through the inter 2 bob cup.
We played superb football (ironically the closest we have come since was our first season back under Pardew), got results against the top teams and made The Boleyn a fortress.
The thing that will always stay in my memory was an interview with 'Arry when he was asked about if he thought at the time that signing DiCanio was a risk. He said Paolo was the signing of his career, that not only was he brilliant on the pitch but he was heavily involved in team selection and tactics, how he would often call Redknapp up at 10 at night having watched tapes of upcoming opponents with ideas about how they might set up for the coming game, where they could exploit the opposition and how to keep their key players quiet.
'Arry said he never picked a team without talking to PDC and one day he would go on to be a superb manager.
Right now we need someone who will ignite a passion in the team that simply isnt there at the moment, someone with a superb football brain and who isnt afraid to take people to task who are underperforming. DiCanio has all of that and his relationship with the fans could provide us an added intangible quality to make Upton Park a fortress once again.
There is alot there Celtic that I never knew … i honestly hope Avraam comes out and proves me wrong but if after the money spent on new signings he is still picking last seasons side and can not motivate the players then he hasn't got the dressing room … it is the constant negative vibes and that our season won't start till October … since when has a West ham side ever laid down and given in before a ball is kicked .. what does it say to the players … and what would Bobby Moore have made of it … we have always been the underdogs … and its what were best at … seems now were sleeping dogs …
Tom his comments are an invitation to the teams we are playing to come and rip us apart, they now know that they dont even have to show the minimum amount of respect to us as we are not going to play anyway.
Imagine if the MOD said British forces were going to stay in their bases for a month with their guns under their pillows?
Gav we all know why Pardew lost the dressing,but we won't go there!
But I really liked his attacking style, it suited the club.
I would still give him another chance.
My gut feeling is GRANT WILL BE SACKED BY CHRISTMAS AND PARDS WILL BE BACK.
You say that we all know why Pards lost the dressing room, (and I'm guessing you're alluding to the allegations surrounding 'extra training sessions'), but are we sure about that? We know about the factions, the gambling and the egos, but the rest surely must be rubbish.
If any of it were true you can guarantee that it would be common knowledge amongst players and chairmen. It would make him unemployable as he would be able to assert no moral authority in the dressing room. He's had two jobs since West Ham..
Chris, i just thought GFZ was dealt a duff hand ..
Zola didnt have it easy but he sold ginge, bought Diamanti, never played him and when he did it was out of position.
Didnt replace Neil
He literally left Da Costa rotting in the reserves while Tomkins was having a nervous breakdown
He played spector over Daprella
He played Spector over any of the other fit member of the squad
His team selection was continuously poor. We also played some of the worst back four passing style of shit football i have ever seen.
If you asked him today what his first eleven would have been he still couldnt tell you.
He made Upson Captain
Everything was smiles when it was shit.
He could never change a game at half time.
He drop players after they had a good game and gave players a run in the side when they were playing crap.
I'm sure there are other but they escape me at the moment
agree chris,after a while zola started losing the plot,he couldn't find a solution and never played Diamanti in the hole,amazing really when he was a number 10 himself.
Hodgson for example lost a few but persisted with what he new,never chopped and changed and finally the players came good.
Chris, i think you'll find the club sold Ginge, and the club bought diamante … Duxbury never replaced Neill and neither has Gollivan … Spector point taken … but remember also Etherington went over LBM, we strip our club to keep the susposed top four … and for me they bring no more than Reo Choker, Mullins, Zamora and the two welsh center halves … my point was he was dealt a bum deal … he made mistakes .. but like Curbs, Pardew et al' who do we want and what do we really expect from this mess were in …
Tom, Zolas downfall was the persistence with 4 3 3 and the very narrow back 4 that let far to many crosses in. IMO
Chris you are one of the very few to sus the narrow back four … but we also had no Left mid either and once certain teams like manure exploited it it was like the allamo … i do like 4-3-3 but only if you have the squad to play that way and for me we didn't, especially up front … one thing i feel alot of people forget is the loss of Dean Ashton, his vision was awsome and I think Freddie Sears would be a different class player by now had he not had to retire …
Totally agree Chris – but it went further than that really. The lack of width all through the side meant that it was easy for teams to set up against us. We became predictable so that defences could pick out the runs before the ball was played because we had no movement off the ball on either wing – players always seemed to try to go inside. Is that the curse of the 'wrong footed player?'
Looking at how Illunga, Dyer and Piquionne worked together on the left in the first half against Bolton was a real improvement.
Great idea, Zola as coach and Pards as manager.
Even thou Zola was a crap manager,he was still a great coach on the training pitch.
Little David's comments about our foreign players lack of application makes me think just how much the makeup of our team has changed. I began following them in 1964 (although didn't see them in action for sometime) the year they won the FA cup. That eleven comprised entirely of English players eight of whom were East End lads who were playing for their local team.
In contrast we have signed 8 players this transfer window who originate from 8 different countries – Germany, France, Mexico, Israel, New Zealand, Belgium, Denmark and Nigeria. We already had Swiss, Czech, South African, Hungarian, Portugese and American players in our squad. Its hardly surprising there is not the same application shown on the field as it only natural that our club can never mean as much to them as it did to the team of 1964 many of whom had been born claret and blue.
Stratford it seems the irony of lamenting the committment of foreign players and then signing 8 foreign players is lost on Sullivan.
Then again like Balrdrick in Black Adder he probably thinks that irony "is like goldy or bronzey but made of iron!"
Peter, expect plenty more foreign imports to follow … they are cheap, play for peanuts and have no commitment … but then would you if you had an employer washing all your dirty linen in public …
i see no reason why grant should be given a lot more time.
no points so far! 1 goal! silly team selections!
and we scraped past oxford!!!!!
for all those who love grant, open your eyes. he does nothing different to zola, in fact id say he is worse, at leats zola seemed really passionate and got the best out of a few players,
if we get nothing in our next 2 games he should be gone, bring in someone british, dunno bout the rest of you but im very fed up of west ham turning into a foriegn side, like you said startford hammer.
once again sullivan was making excuses about the new players, what a complete mug he is. i hope he reads this site so he realises how much of a moron he is.
what would peoples teams against chelsea be? similar to this i presume:
green
behrami upson da costa illunga
barerra parker hitz/noble dyer/obina
cole obina/dyer
I would not disagree with your team but would be very surprised if Behrami or Da Costa selected. It seems all Nani's signings are unwanted
I can't see berahmi or Da Costa either Rob, but lets be honest we all have our thoughts and we all feel we could pick a team that could cause an upset … i honestly beleve that if we get the selction, tactics and formation right we could sting Chelski … if you me and the many others on here can do our homework then what are the club paying Avraam to do … its not so much about giving him time, its the fact that he is repeating the Pompey nightmare …
exactly, say one or two of us would pick a similar team but the fact that hundreds of similar teams have been posted over the last couple of weeks kind of shows selection at the moment is wrong.
as for the chelsea game, if he picks tomkins we are in trouble and if he decides spector should be right back again its game over
Rob, I am intrigued to see if he picks any of his new signings … I say his with a loose tongue … however we need strength and guille at the back … discipline in the middle and pace in abundance … we have that and in a tight game we have Dyer, Barreara and Obinna who could all nick a goal … only time will tell though
yeh guess we'll have to see.
our best starting 11 isnt actually that bad but grant wont pick the best 11 i fear
I just looked at the official website and, despite all the previous advertising, our forthcoming games against Chelsea and Spurs are still not sold out. In previous years tickets would have gone weeks ago. Obviously fans who are not seasonticket holders are voting with their feet. What makes our owners expect to fill a 60,000 capacity stadium when they struggle to sell half that number for two of our biggest fixtures?
I watched them play Oxford, pub football !!!!! who wants to pay to watch that load of crap !!
Sadly I have already paid for the season!
Agree Stratford.
Peter, I have said for weeks the fans are voting in numbers … speak to royski about the box prices, speak to others on here about the standard of service and the food, at the Bolton game there were rows of season ticket holders missing … we may have a decent fan base, however don't treat them like mugs and treat their team like kids that have no option otherwise your investment will disapear … until Avraam lifts the negative tactics and gollivan stops telling the world we ain't gonna start playing for another month then i shall enjoy the golf course … who in their right mind is going to pay to watch their team get slaughtered ? …
no way i'd give my money to the club right now, they aren't doing whats best for the club and haven't once
Any owner of West Ham has taken the fans for granted for many years up until now and the 3 hapless incumbents must now be realising "West Ham Olympic'David Beckham' and I want Zola to stay' have proven to be PR disaster efforts and if fans are voting with their feet it is about time because for a long while being a supporter of West Ham is the equivalent of a Death row prisoner facing the last request !however the tables are turning and people wont spend money unless they buy what they feel is value for money and at the moment it is a luxury people wont pay for especially with the negative aura from the very top, down,something or someone has to change and the owners have to live in the modern world, not the Tardis stuck in a time warp!
very true
You didn't mention "MARQUEE SIGNINGS!!!"
ha ha. What a joke as we scraped around in the bargain bucket
Did we sign Beckham or Henry?lol
Graham, in the past there was no internet and no blogs to find a general feeling of fellow fans only the small groups we sat around on match days … now is a different thing and it is interesting reading some press articles that relate direct to many of the Hammers Blogs …
On the subject of local lads… We could've snapped up Jonjo Shelvey before Liverpool got him – think he went for between £3mil and £5mil. I also would've tried to get Jack Wilshere; even on loan if a permanent deal couldn't have been arranged. Both are West Ham supporters and I'm sure would love to play in the claret and blue. I'd have taken Wilshere as our domestic loan player over TBH any day of the week.
Just looked and according to Wikipedia, Jonjo Shelvey went to Liverpool for just £1.7mil… Bargain.
Jack, GFX was in for him a year ago and the manager at the time Parkinson I think wanted £7m plus for him … says it all really .. a year later, another season in league two and all because you were too bloody greedy …
You will recall that when Gold and Sullivan took over at the start of the year they made a big point of the fact that they are not in the habit of sacking managers. Now that they have made their own appointment and he is clearly content to toe their line there will be no sacking. They only thing that these guys will listen to is a dramatic response by the fans. A boycott of one of our upcoming home games would make them think twice about railroading this club and its fans into the oblivion of Stratford and the Olympic stadium with a half baked team and no ambition.
Kildare. if I may, I think they are pure and simple, ruthless business men here for the profits and ritches a move to the Olympic stadium would bring them. If I am right then by mid November Avraam Grant will be gone … they have no care who does or doesn't want the Olympic Stadium but one thing depends on there business plan and that is remaining a Premiership club … by hook or by crook they will keep us up … if we are bottom and pointless make no bones they will offload him sharpish … we are a huge investment oportunity for the business communtiy … not the footballing one … who gives a shit if we only sell 20 000 tickets a week at the new ground, securing the tenancy for all the other events and the marketing merchandise will make them a fortune … ohhh and throw in a football clb just to keep it ticking over whilst your at it ..
Tom the prize in this is the profits from the sale of the completed mixed use development on the site of the Boleyn Ground.
Once we have moved to the Olympic stadium then Golivan will off load the club to the first poor sucker to wander by.
There is little or no money to be made from us being at stratford, they dont own it, they wont benefit greatly from non footballing events hosted there and they club will have to fund repayments of an additional £120M+ worth of loans before any profit can be taken out and thats simply not going to happen.
The would move us to Hackney marshes if it got us out of the Boleyn thats all the care about
Celtic, I wasn't aware that the site in Green Street was worth more than £30m … I see them taking us to the Olympic stadium so they can set up huge franchises with other media and sporting events … I then see them taking the money from the sale of Upton Park along with TV revenues to cover their investment … once in the Olympic stadium I foresee them, as you say offloading the club itself, but holding all the other cards … not caring that we only attract 20 000 fans … the cheaper seats they have promised are 50m behind the goals … I am intrigued by your thoughts … please continue … may I also add that Karen Brady has recently stated that to bring the stadium inline with current corporate hospitality it will cost nearer £190m to redevelop the stadium ..
I go a long with a lot you say Celtic,but not so sure about this one,you could build all the developments you like on the Boleyn site,but will it make money? l am not so sure,I think you would need multi millions spent on the surrounding area before the Boleyn site would be worth any thing,they tried a very similar thing in Barking they call it the vicarage,its been a absolute flop!!!
I see the club have made Collison come out and big up Grant after he sucked on Zola!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I thought he'd have been transfer listed over his love for Zola … not towing the party line of we all love Avraam …. at least two weeks wages I reckon and a 1000 lines a day during rehab … Never ever ever ever mention Zola, Gollivan is king, Avraam is great … I must obey master.
In reply to Soldier_Tom and mrDET
Sold as a "brown field site" the ground is worth in or around £30M and as Tom says that falls a very long way short of the £190M cost of redeveloping the stadium. Loans of £120M from Newham Council have ben mentioned but this still leaves a £40M shortfall in the cost, will this be funded by further borrowing?
If someone (for legal reasons I wont say who) were able to get the current ground on the cheap then it would provide the chance to make even more money from redeveloping the ground as part of a mixed use development.
Post 2012 there is an expected boom in the East End of London with the increase not only in tourism but in the increase in population from the sale of the olympic village accomodation to the public. There will be large scale retail developments in and around Stratford which will draw a lot of money into the area.
The improvements in infrastructure that will accompany the games development will make the ares appealing to service companies who tend to have large workforces of young professionals who are exactly the type that will be target to buy the former athletes village accomodation.
There for a mixed use commercial / retail development within minutes of Stratford would be a very lucrative project for the developers.
Its the lack of any discussion at all of the club entering into a partnership agreement with the prospective developers in order to maximise the figure the club would recieve from the sale of the Boleyn that makes me believe we will be shunted to the Olympic Stadium no matter how bad the deal is for the club or how much the fans dont want it to happen.
When Golivan bought 50% of the club something was just plain wrong, the two other parties were offering the same money (in fact slightly more) and were on the verge of satisfying all requirements to buy the club but Straumur chose to sell only half. Why? It didnt make sense and never has, unless there was a promise of a larger return down the road, the type that only the sale of a development on the site of the current ground could generate.
What was the key difference between the 3 bids? Golivan were the only ones who talked about moving to the Olympic Stadium from the outset.
The figures simply dont add up, it would cost around £40M to increase the Boleyn to 45,000 and a plan was drawn up under BG to do so without the need for extensive borrowing. Why would we look to pay almost £200M to gain an extra 15,000 seats to move to a ground we dont own, will never own and will leave the club at least £120M further in debt.
This would more than double the highest figure our debt was ever put at by Golivan, a figure they claim was on the verge of seeing the club go into administration. How so can increasing that debt by over 100% be a good thing?
Whosoever said that "slash and burn" had been abandoned over the last few centuries in the West?
Long-term Loss – Short-term gain is order of the day RH.
It's not too hard to imagine Mr Gold & Mr Sullivan copying the Manchester City model. Sell the ground for development, Rent a Stadium then sell the club to a Multi-Billionaire Middle-Eastern family.
Once the Oligarchs and the Sheikhs get bored they'll be off in a shot – leaving the likes of Chelski and Man City saddled with huge overheads and no way to pay them.
Celtic, thanks for your time, I am enquisitive as ever but not one to put a bone down till I am happy … none of anything Gollivan has done so far adds up or meets any of the pledges made … in my little piece above I see them not fussed what league we play in or how many fans are in the ground … I think there is alot of filling ones own pockets going on and the only people who can stop it are the fans … at some stage we need to have honest answer and honest updates like Levy gave the Spurs fans …
Iain, as I asked earlier is there any contacts you have that can set up an open Q & A interview with Gollivan or Brady …
If there is a Q&A with the Gollivans my only thought would be to fit them with lie detectors, so we get the whole truth nothing but the truth!lol
SJ, thank you very much for the tip-off. I hadn't seen that programme before, and thoroughly enjoyed it.
There were some great clips.
My favourite was Bobby's reaction to the Newcastle player who had a go at him. I loved the way he calmly stroked the guy's cheeks and then walked away.
And George Best was very modest and full of praise. That was nice to hear from such a special, gifted attacking player.
I saw this documentary a while back. I think the praise from George Best is the most telling. In the early 70s, all the footage I saw of Best was of defenders trying to hack him down because they couldn't tackle him cleanly – and most of the time they couldn't even manage to do that. Bobby Moore wasn't the fastest defender in the world, but he could read forwards and make clean challenges. And it wasn't just Best that respected him for that, Pele did too. Intelligence and integrity – Bobby still has a lot to teach this generation of players.
Gone but never forgotten.
Well said, Tony_E … clean, clinical player, wonderful football brain, and it was great to be reminded that he treated everyone the same. No airs and graces.
When I met him for the first time, on a train coming back from Manchester, he was very gracious and generous in the simple act of signing my match programme.
Another player in the team – a real nobody – had earlier told me: 'I don't think you're supposed to be in here, son,' referring to my presence in a first-class compartment of the train.
In contrast, it never entered Bobby's head to question my presence, and later, as my Mum, Dad and I walked down the platform at Watford after getting off the train, it pulled away and he looked up from what he was doing and gave us all a lovely wave. He truly was my hero and was worthy of that status.
Graybo, didn’t know you were a Watford lad!!
I lived there for my teens and twenties, in a house that almost backed on to Vicarage Road. If you want a passionate owner Elton John is the man. He bought that team away from financial meltdown, didn’t moan like the D’s and didn’t interfere either. The two Daves should take a leaf from his book.
I don't know about you all but I am getting a little fed up with Grant and the owners coming out with sob stories about how much debt we are in.
We are all aware of it but it seems that this is the default excuse now to be used whenever things are not going as well as they should.
Before the season started, and in pre-season when we were winning all games and looking impressive, Grant never moaned to the press about restrictions in finance due to large debts.
It seems to me that all negative talk about huge debts is just counter-productive. When Grant took over I was very much impressed with his bravado and optimism.
Statements were made about the debts of course, but mostly the focus was on steady improvement and a bright future.
Nothing has changed since these statements, apart from three lame performances. It is a concern for me, and I'm sure most of the squad, that the manager, and owners, seem to be getting the excuses in early before the ultimate failure.
Let's have more optimism, more chest beating. I still maintain that the club have one of the best midfields in the whole premiership, only behind the likes of Arsenal, Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City.
With a midfield to pick from the likes of Parker, Noble, Hitzlsperger, Collison(eventually) Barrera, Obinna, and Behrami – we have got wonderful players.
However, the defense looks weak but in time they may gel. We also have an England international up front who mid table teams as well as Liverpool were desperate to take off our hands – With Hines available from Xmas we should, SHOULD be fine.
Grant – stop the excuses, bin the negativity and focus on what we do have. We have more than enough to AT LEAST finish above the likes of WBA, Wolves, Blackpool, Wigan.
And then we get to teams that are similar standard to us in Bolton, Stoke, Birmingham, Blackburn, Fulham, Newcastle etc. I would say we have better players than all these team, except that we don't have the organisation.
Mr Grant. You have the players that can and perhaps, should finish mid table – now stop the moaning and get on with the job.
Andy, I think we all feel the same and the waffles coming out of Avraam today over funds takes the biscuit … he knew what we had, he knew there was an element of speculate to accumulate and you wasted both.
What was the requirement for Reid at £4m ? … we needed a goalscorer and bought Piquionne who would have be a suffice replacement for Cole who we were just plain greedy in what we valued him at … he should have gone early doors and Remy or a RSC brought in …
You moan about unbalance, but what did you do about it … a bad tradesman always blames his tools … its the mentality etc etc … we have a more than capable squad that you haven't used properly yet … if players are supposedly injured or tired, how come they are playing two games in five days for their countries ? … you have the oportubity to sting Chelski on saturday … step up and do what your paid to do and stop noshing Gollivan off …
I don't care if we lose 6-0 so long as we have a go and don't set up to contain them and get ripped apart … we are playing at Upton Park, our home, the home of the best support in football … sort it and we'll be right behind you … carry on as you are and you'll be plating in front of an empty stadium ..
Let's hope we see seeds of recovery – or hope – against Chelski on saturday.
I thought there were seeds of hope at Old Trafford in the first half, until a certain player gave away the penalty and then stood by and watched Berbatov help himself to a goal. To be honest if we'd made it to half-time I could have seen the crowd getting a bit restless with the home side, and we might have hung on to take something out of it.
We retained possession quite well (until we gave the ball to Phil Spector, who promptly booted it away), Dyer made some good, positive runs (albeit with not much of an end product), and there were some shoots of recovery.
That's not to say I'm hugely optimistic about the outcome this Saturday. I think it speaks volumes that there are still so many tickets available. Should have been sold out immediately.
Graybo, it is unheard of for tickets against chelski to go on general sale … but I just think if he picks the right team, does his homework and plays a formation and tactics that suit us we have a fair chance of stinging them … move Dyer to a central role and let him run at Terry and have Cole sit on Alex so Terry has to commit … have Barrera and Obinna push on and force the fulbacks back instead of setting up to contain them which is what most think Avraam will do …
I have no problems getting beat but it is just the negativity he playes … for me I thought we were just hanging on at Old Trafford and that it was simply a case of when and how many … I am not confident with the back four for keeping it tight unlike we were with Curbs …
tom yr first paragraph had me excited for the first time this season.like the idea of dyer running at terry and the two wingers forcing back chelseas full backs.then realism kicked in and all i could see was lampard pointing to the sky after he had scored,i think it was a mistake sacking zola cos i believe the players were behind him and a them and us siege mentality against the gobshite sullivan held them together.i feel now with grant we have a boards yes man.as for the tkt sales ,unbelievable but in my eyes a good thing.people are fed up with the excuses and spin and are voting with their feet.anyway mate love to someday meet up for a pint .keep up the posting mate
Thanks pjd, I just find it all rather frustrating … we are a club with so much potential but are wide open to greedy business men milking the profits from a huge fan base … I do honestly think we have a chance on saturday … we know we have Dyer for an hour so lets up the tempo. stay dsciplined in the middle of the park with Parker and Noble breaking up play and I think he'll play Jacobsen and TBH in defence … but then again you watch him drop Spector and play Reid to mark Drogba … then keep his 4-5-1
Sorry it will be be same old thing,we still do not have a creative striker or midfield players,and if Spector starts,just forget it. We will be lucky if we get more then 10 points by Christmas.
I just think its Avraam mate … we have the potential … we know we haven't a goal scorer but we have pace and creativity … move Dyer more central and use Obinna and barrera to counter with … I think if he chooses the right team we can get something i really do …
No judgements from me until we're 12 games in to the season.
Barrera to start in a 2-2 draw this weekend.
COYI!!!
Gav we could be 12 games into a season and have no points.
We would have no chance of staying up if thats the case.
If things are not seriously improved this weekend against Chelski, Grant should be show the door.
He is already trotting out the party line about debts and how the Daves saved the club and thats just not on. He was the cheap option and he was the wrong choice
That's why we'll never achieve anything CH – we just keep turning over managers with our Corporate American "Hire & Fire" type attitude (no offence meant to our friends across the pond).
The stats bear it out – the most successful clubs are the ones who stick by their team management.
I said it at the start of the season when I saw the fixtures. You can't judge Avram at any time from games 1-6 – he needs until game 12 before any sensible assumptions can be made – just waaaayy too kneejerk otherwise.
Gav, i don't blame Avraam, he is what he is, for me the buck stops with the owners who promised GFZ deserved a second chance … Zola knew the players and knew who and what was needed … keeping him and SC would have saved at least £5m in compensation payments to start with … Diamante would have stayed and Reid would never have been heard of … saving further monies to spend …
However I do go with Celtic, if after six games there are blatant signs that Avraam has not turned things around then he needs to go … pure and simple mistake of the wrong man for the job, i hope I am wrong and we start to gel and play well … show some potential … I won't hold my breath though, i have honestly thought throughtout pre season he might be out of his depth …
Just have to agree to differ Tom. Six games is nothing like long enough.
As for being out of his depth – he's gone through much tougher times than this, managed a club to a champions league final and won trophies with many clubs in many countries.
Quite frankly very little surprises me but the suggestion that a West Ham Manager should be sacked after just six games I find astounding.
Gav, i would only let him go if it was extreme … ie, one way traffic and no response from the players in the next three game … you could argue that John terry and co got the CL final in spite of Avraam not because of him … I work in and around a lot of Pompey fans and they differ in their opinions … my thoughts are that that he never resolved the problems we had in the squad … he hasn't played his own signing and his set up and tactics have been off the mark … so if after 6 to 8 games we are still looking pointless and not looking like scoring what do you do …
Gav appointing the wrong man and then keeping him on just to prove we don't fire managers isn't the right idea either.
Grant was always the wrong choice but he was cheap so in their continued efforts to tun the club into the ground with their penny pinching Gollivan appointed him.
He clearly isnt up to the job, the biggest problems we had last season are still there and he has started Spector at Old Trafford. He is simply a yes man who will do as he is told and toe the party line. 3 games in and he is already bleating on about the debts and how the daves saved us.
There was more integrity and character in the tip of Giannfranco Zola's little finger than there is in all of Avram Grants body.
Beg to differ again CH – the thing is that it's too early to know if he's up to the job or not. Any manager in his position would've struggled with those first 3 games – regardless of who they are. I don't think anyone is in a good position to make any judgement about Avram's ability to Manage our club at this stage – or even after the first six games. After 12 we'll have a much better idea – it won't be too late and I severely doubt we'll be on zero points as you suggested that we might.
Gav I am judging him on his performance since he joined the club, if he is responsible for the type of signings we have made then he doesnt understand what the squad needs and isnt up to the job.
If they were signed without his agreement or he was unable to convince the board to sign the players he wants in which case he is a yes man and isnt up to the job.
His record is far from stellar, Pompey were a shambles last year and he did nothing to change that when he took over. Under him Israel were one of the most negative dull boring teams to watch and my nan could have done as well as he did with a chelski team with that kind of talent!
Gav, I too think we have a chance … but only if Avraam changes his ways … at Pompey he was notorious for setting up a 4-5-1 to contain the big teams … we have pace in abundance and Dyer in behind Cole with Obinna and Barrera there is goals … in defence TBH and Jacobsen should come in and by playing 4-2-3-1 Scotty and Nobes need to stay disciplined and stop Chelski's midfield dominating … Dyer to get both our goals and Chelski to come from two down ..
Agreed – he needs to ring the changes at some point soon. I hope it's against Chelsea but I'll be patient – to a point!
Ive got a feeling we will get something out the chelsea game. Dont know why but we are due if that is a good reason.
Up the hammers!!
I like the cut of your gib, Salesh.
What has suprised me is that the youngsters haven't been shipped out on some early season playing time in the lower leagues … Tomkins and Spence might prove invaluble in the new year and the likes of Nouble Sears and Stanislas are not going to get any better warming the bench … have I missed something or have they gone ?
What is it with people on here that rate Pardew and Zola?
We all said that Grant has to be given time, particularly when the fixtures came out.
Celtic – I do wonder about you sometimes, if you think we will be pointless after 12 games, you really should concentrate on the club's finances and forget about the football side.
But for Terry slipping over in the penalty shoot out, Grant almost did something that both Mourinho and Ancellotti have failed to do. I have to admit that his selection of Spector concerned me, but with new players bedding in, I expect a masive improvement in the coming weeks.
Christ, even Capello has finally realised what I said pre-world cup that Hart was Numero uno, and Walcott and Johnson should have gone to SA. He also appears to have realised that Gerrard is a central midfield player. Well done Fabio – not bad for 6 million a year!!!!
Devo we are seriously prone to defensive lapses and very goal shy up front, we have a tendency to drop our heads when we go behind and there is always the chance of spector playing which is as good as a goal head start to most teams.
Even Grant and little Dave are saying our season really only starts in October so they are none to sure of us picking up points before then.
Exactly what a pointless run like that will do to a team already short on confidence is anyones guess but I doubt it will inspire them
Celtic – of course we are prone to defensive lapses and tha won't change until we have bedded in new players and got a settled back 4. Grant may well be the wrong appointment but how can he be judged after 3 particularly difficult fixtures?
The signing of Jacobsen should see Spector even further down the pecking order and hopefully the return of Da Costa and Hitzlsperger will help shore up the cracks.
Zola lost 6 or 7 on the spin and some of those games were against the league's whipping boys!
Need I remind everyone that Arry took over Spurs after 8 games in which they had garnered 2 whole points!!
As Gav siad – let's judge Grant after 12 games. If we are rooted to the bottom by then, we are in big trouble, I agree.
Completely 100% agree mate.
From the same fixtures:
20010/11 – 0 points
2009/10 – 1 point
2008/09 – 1 point
2007/08 – 1 point
Too many people are getting on Grant's back straight away which is not fair. I was never a massive fan of his appointment but we MUST get behind him and give him a chance. To be honest i wanted Mark Hughes. I think we are far too light weight and Mark Hughes wouldnt let some of our players get away with the performances they put in.
Only time i saw us get phisical last season was against arsenal at home, we really bullied them off the ball. On the whole though we must be seen as easy targets by the rest of the league. We seem to play exactly to the rules and expect the ref to back us up, which surprisingly never happens. Be nice to see our players taking the game by the scruff of the neck.
Always agree with you devo
good to hear 2 benni's in now 1 benni. He might actually surprise one or two
If the latest reports are accurate, Andy, he is more than capable, which with Obinna, maybe the kick up the backside that CC needs.
Devo. with a fit Benni and Berahmi and Obinna looking to start how would you set up against Chelski ? … I like the 4-2-3-1 we used in the first half against Bolton … with Both Parker and Noble dedicated to defensive duties … with a three of Barrera – Dyer – Obinna in front of them … maybe Benni or Piquionne up top ? …. also would you go with playing Jacobsen and TBH along side Upson and Illunga ?
Well said Devo. I agree with most of the others (sorry CH, but you are off the mark on this occasion) that we must give AG time to bed down his preferred first 11 and bear in mind that we still have a few, potentially very influential, players such as Hitz, Hines and Da Costa unavailable to date.
At least we now have more choice in the squad. With the possible exception of Rob Green and the RB position, there are back ups for all other places, so Cole and Upson should no longer consider themselves shoe-ins
It is also good to read some more positive posts from Gav, SkinnyChris and Soldier Tom. We need to be realistic about our position but also look forward with optimism.
HH he may prove me wrong but I have seen nothing but a yes man who will do as he is told from Grant since he arrived and that to me is not what we need.
Grant is 3 games into his tenure and he is already making the kind of excuses and sucking up to the owners in a way that Zola would never have done.
Celtic seriously mate I cant understand why people think Grant is a yes man. He openly criticised the ownership problems at Pompey and the David's have never employed a 'yes man' style of manager.
Grant (deserved or not) was in demand before we signed him up and there's no way that he would have come to us just to be a puppet.
I hate the fact that he's already digging around for excuses, but that's nothing new, managers have tried to deflect attention away from their teams since the dawn of time.
And who cares if he's sucking up to the owners. Fat load of good Zola's relationship with them did us. I'd much prefer owners and managers be pulling in the right direction.
CH – I think we can agree that the jury is out but but we all need to get on board with the situation (that includes the DD's and AG).
What should happen:
AG to be totally in control of team matters – tactics, selection, development of our home grown talent and recommendation for squad improvement
DD's and KB to control the finances and devise a strategy for clearing the debt and delivering a strategy for continued success on the pitch.
US – Get behind the team. Show our passion on match day and review dispasionately…well as much as possible!
Yes, either of us could be wrong and by Christmas we will know whether we face another tortured Easter. IMO the difference between Zola and Grant is down to experience. I imagine both managers think similarly but AG plays a more political game with the owners whereas Zola would speak his mind and very openly. This, regretably was his downfall with them.
HH the only strategy that Golivan and Brady have for the finances is to increase the debt by more than £120M so believe the jury is far from still out.
As for Grant, his experience is what? Managed in Israel (hardly a hot bed of world football), managed the Israeli national team making them the dullest team to watch Ive ever seen, took over a star studded chelski team that anyone could have done well with and helmed Pompey to the championship.
I will take no experience over bad experience!
Good News on Scotty signing a new contract, now give him the armband and let him get on with leading the team.