There’s not a lot one can say after an England performance like that. Sure, if the Lampard goal had been given, things might have turned out differently, but like most of you, I have my doubts.
Defensively we were all over the place. The four defenders looked as if they hadn’t ever played together. Terry and Upson were abject from start to finish. Glen Johnson played like he couldn’t give a damn. Up front we showed nothing. Rooney appeared as if he was only half there, while Defoe wasn’t a lot better. But even a half on form Defoe is better than Heskey. I mean what kind of fool thinks bringing on a player like Heskey when you are 3-1 down is actually going to turn a game round? What we eneded at that stage on goals, so why bring on a player who rarely scores, rather than Peter Crouch who has a record of scoring a goal every other game for England.
Steven Gerrard was woeful today, as was Milner. Barry looked busy and Lampard had his best game of the tournament, but by his standards it was still very average.
One of the main problems was the the middle of the pitch was too crowded. No width at all – but if you don’t play with natural wingers, what do you expect?
What a very disappointing afernoon. In theory, man for man, you’d say we should have beaten this German team. But they played as a team and we didn’t.
Yes, you have to blame the players for their abject performances, but if they are playing in an unnatural system, and in unnatural positions, this is what happens.
Virtually everyone could see Gerrard should have been playing behind Rooney and not out on the left, but Capello was having none of it. Terry was playing in the wrong side of central defence. Gerrard was playing in an unnatural position. Go figure.
I don’t normally believe in getting rid of managers at the first sign of grapeshot, but in this case I cannot see how Capello can stay. And do you know who I’d have succeed him? Harry Redknapp. No kidding. We need an England manager who has a record of inspiring teams. Roy Hodgson would be OK too..
What do y’all think?
Paulfake. We wouldn’t have played Germany if green hadn’t thrown it in the net. You carry on. You only confirm what the rest of england already knows.
If green hadn’t thrown the ball into the net we wouldn’t have been playing Germany. You carry on. All you do is just prove the rest of the country right.
i actually believe the above comment i reckon there was some match fixing the america slovenia game disallowed goal disgrace behrami sending off disgrace kaka sendng off disgrace the lumpards goal aboslute disgusting refing you could see the fans behind the linesman cheering and the only man in the stadium with the power mysteriosly doesnt see it a complete joke and then to top it off tevez was miles offside and the mexicans were hard done by the whole world cup was taken the p*** out of this year and i cant wait to get back to west ham united
cant agree more
wether it is fixed or what its a disgrace, everyone loves to see england loose. and when a team (like mexico) work so hard to get where they did a shocking decision just wastes 4 years of their development, ITS A 4 YEAR WAIT TILL THE NEXT WORLD CUP!!!
whats the bet the team hasnt changed for england!
FIFA sit on a £1 billion bank account and the rest is just pocket money to them … why ohh why is that not passed back down to the grass roots ?
At least we're in little danger of losing Upson and Green now!
Not for a great price anyway!
The performances have been dire and for me the problem lies with the amount of money they get. They have no motivation to give their all as they are now coming back to their millions of pounds houses, with their top of the range cars, great sponsorship deals and will quickly forget how pathetic they were in SA. There does now need to be a salary cap. I do think Capello is Sven mark two, unable to affect a game going badly positively and should probably be replaced but that will not happen and we will have the same thing happening if we qualify for Euro 2012. The following should not play for England again, Terry, James, Carragher, Cole (Doesn't give a shit), Lampard, Heskey, Upson, Beckham, Barry, Carrick, Johnson (not good enough), and we should now look to bringing our youth talent through in to the senior team
JMman, i kinda disagree with you here mate … we were fine up to the point that Capello went back on his word and took unfit and out of form players. Only he knows why he persevered with the Lampard and gerrard scenario and never opted for a 4-3-3 set up that our top six or seven teams play.
It is not just Capello but Ray Clemance as GK coach has an unsung record of desrtoying young talented GK's … the only time I would blame the players is when they bottled it and left Terry out to dry when he wanted an open forum to voice there concerns … and finally brining back Carragher and including King over proven Sol Cambell and Upson who had played well in an England shirt up till then was shocking …
Brazil will win World Cup…..a class above! England need to start from scratch get a new squad in…..prep for European championship 2012 on the way to Brazil 2014…need to be more pacy etc! Cappelo just terrible! Heskey on as sub, boggles the mind.
The only thing i realise after watching the match is why Hitz couldn't make the squad and parker is lucky not to.
Zola and Clarke are on the market.
Players will love them.
I reckon all of the reasons why we have failed again have been covered in one way or the other and the end result is that we are simply not good enough and have not been anywhere close to it since 1990. And even then Robson had got it wrong and was persuaded by the senior players to change the system.
Last night it was painfully obvious after a quarter of an hour that the system was wrong but neither Capello or the players (and they have responsibility too) had either the nous or the vision to be able to do that.
With regard to squad selection, I reckon most of us would have picked mostly the same squad as Capello. It's only about 3 or 4 places that would have been up for debate. Would 3 or 4 different players have mad a difference? I doubt it as the much the same team would have started every game anyway.
I think another issue has been that of communication. After more than 2 years in the job Capello's English is still basic at best and I know from experience of working abroad that causes difficulties.
However, it still comes back to the fact that we are not, and haven't been for a long time, good enough for whatever reason.
Roy, point taken but i do feel that had we played to our strengths ie 4-3-3 and used our best players in their proven positions we would have been at the races … it is not the defeat that worry's me … it has been the manner we have palyed throughout the tournament and yesterday had been on the cards in big large letters … Terry was prepared to stand up but was stabbed in the back … so much wrong but little done about it … are we any worse than the French or Italians ? it wasn't we weren't good enough … we simply continue to get it wrong
I have decided after our Sunday league performances in this tournament that I will not waste anymore of my valuable time watching England play 'football' until every player chosen for the World Cup this year are no longer in the team. I think Waddle's comments are spot on regarding the lack of power and investment in talent from the FA. Not to have the goal awarded was indeed a world class mistake, but more than that tens of thousands of fans paid their hard earned cash to sit through the dross served up by England and they deserve a refund on their match tickets, flight fare, accommodation costs and for the money they had to spend drinking enough to try and forget the whole debacle! I have a lot of respect for the fans who do travel to see England play, but from now on I won't even watch them on telly.
let's talk about the hammers! Mirror are saying that Grant has put the Riquelme transfer on hold cause he's not so sure about him! C'mon Avram……we all know he's worth a punt!
To be fair report did not question his playing ability but stated Avran's decision was more around the player's history of being a disruptive influence and if so I would totally agree best steer clear
I heard on the radio today that the England players didnt even thank the fans for their support last night. They just walked off the pitch!
viva la revolution
i cant believe why so many people are surprised about the result.these players apart from a couple are very average.as for the sack capello brigade,hes done the same as erikson and mcclaren with these players.i think it says more about them than the managers,they are overpaid under achieving and nowhere close to being so called world class.thank god its over for another 4 years cos now we can get back to proper football.oh yes is anyone as angry as me over the bobby moore cup fiasco
I'm sorry mate but there is A LOT of quality in the England squad. The problem we've had for the last decade is that we have had managers who play their favourites who are often out of form and to squeeze them onto the pitch they are often played out of position.
England might not of had the quality to win the world cup but they without a shadow of doubt had the quality to progress to the quarter finals. Maybe the players should shoulder some of the blame but Capello has been nothing short of a poor man manager.
Quality punt Chris … on the nail
He still cant speak English! He played Barry who wasnt match fit! Gerrard and Lampard were often in more defensive positions! He selected an out of form squad! I dont know why he bothered taking any right or left midfielders!
He selected Heskey?! And i have no doubt the players saw his failings, his arrogance, his strick regime and they didnt buy it!
People moan about the England players believing their own hype. Well Capello was the worst. His head was too far up his own arse to see all the mistakes he was making!
People seem to think you can just select a load of good players and throw them onto a pitch say 'play' and they will win games. It just simply doesnt work that way!
If they are good players they should be able to play with other good players and win games.
To an extent i agree mate but Capello made so many failings i find i hard to put the majority of blame on the players.
Rooney = useless
Gerrard = useless
Terry = useless
Good for club, bad for england (sometimes).
Capelllo made a failing when he bought hesky on for defoe when he cant even score a goal.
Salesh, they are class players in the positions they play for there clubs because they are playing to their strengths … England managers for some reason continually fail to do this … why ?
well im sorry ive listened to all yr opinions and understand what u all say but nobody will ever convince me that these players are class'maybe ashley cole would get into most other nations teamss,rooney maybe one or two but gerrard and terry not a chance,lampard and gerrard are too one paced and terry isnt even that.we deluded ourselves for so long now we are good.results proove otherwise.i cannot remember an english side showing such a lack of passion.i know this may sound petty to some but some of them dont even bother to sing the anthem.
[...] Time for Harry? | West Ham Till I Die [...]
Did anyone else notice Beckham at half time, had a word for every single player as they walked off the pitch, and he's not even on the coaching staff. He really seemed to care!
I am ready to get abuse for this comment but… If you want a revolution in the way the team is run why not give him the job for two years, I reckon he would take it even if it didn't pay a penny. Tell him he is not allowed to pick anyone over 28 and if they earn more than £50k a week they are ineligible. Might not be the best group of players but it would be a good team and would really shake things up. Klinsmann took over the German squad in 2004 with out any managerial experience but over saw some big changes there and went a long way in 2006.
Agree with the sentiment 100% HH – the reality would be a carcrash, as the lack of development of the England international players coming through aren't able to fill the gap, but in principle you're bang on.
Agree with the sentiment 100% HH – the reality would be a carcrash, as the lack of development of the England international players coming through means they aren't able to fill the gap, but in principle you're bang on. And if there was ever a player who cared and wore his England shirt with pride it was Beckham – his earnings from the game notwithstanding.
I've been thinking about Beckham too. He wouldn't be able to deal with club management or full time coaching, but in the international arena he should have the tactical capability and the personality to potentially do well.
I think your question was asking if harry was now right time for him to take over but although I think h would do an excellent job for england the problem would be his alledged tax evasion and if this is cleared up I dont see anyone better than him as coach as his track record has been good most of his career in management as ferguson would not be interested either as his a scot I dont see anyone else better than h to be given the chance for the euros now. like most here I just cant see why we fall down with certainly better players than the germans have except the team will to win being so much more than us so how do we get the supporters pride and passion and will to win transfered to the players making it once again looking like its just about the money
is the manager fault, 75%. and the players, 15%. and FIFA 10%.
crap management. overated player. useless governing body!
The English players play well with overseas players in England but how many English players play in the Premier League?Overseas players dominate so the developement of English players is impossible so the system is failing but as Bookmakers and Major corperate heavyweights dominate shirt sponsorship the game has a bent stench attached to the brand it promotes,something is damagingly wrong especially with an FA that is run by no-one properly,shambolic considering the money that is generated,where is the business run professionally,Club level only,England is only second best,yet we want to win,truth is we never will, the non-structure wont allow it,doomed to fail,sad!
I just read a post on a spurs blog laughing at us advertising season tickets on the radio to which one spurs fan added that we had cost England the world cup this year. Here is the reply I posted
We lost you the World Cup? How do you figure that then when our crap centre half scored as many goals as your star striker?
The thing is no matter what way you look at it Spurs cost England their place in the tournament. Ledley King accepted a place in the squad when he knew he wouldn't be able to last the pace and sure enough things had hardly started when he broke down. He should have had more respect for his country and declined his place in the squad so that a fitter (and frankly better) player like Lescot, Jagielka or Shawcross could have gone and maybe helped out Englands cause.
Michael Dawson and Peter Crouch were obviously so poor in training that they were not even considered a serious part of the managers plans and simply got a nice little holiday for themselves, Crouch could not even displace Heskey as the preferred target man leaving that cart horse up front to lead the line, Crouch was obviously too busy practicing the robot and being amazed that he has a girlfriend to care about his country so he left it to his mate Defoe to fire England out of the World Cup.
All throughout the tournament there have been acts of selfless devotion to a countries cause and a spirit of togetherness from teams who knew every player would die for the shirt but these tales were wasted completely on Defoe. Never has a more selfish, self deluded and frankly disgraceful player pulled on an England shirt. His one "goal" resulted from a James Milner cross ricocheting off his knee and into the net. His repeated cowardice against Germany lead to him being substituted for Emile Heskey and there can be no bigger condemnation of your effort than to be hauled off and replaced by a man who couldn't hit the tarmac if he fell out of the team plane. I mean he could maybe have lived it down if the brought Crouch on in his place but unfortunately Peter was too busy trying to become the 3 member of Twist & Pulse to notice he needed to go and warm up.
I supposed it's hard to build a spirit of togetherness in any national squad when 4 of them come from the biggest team of mercenaries ever seen in football.
Because I am Irish you probably think I am thrilled to see England thrashed yesterday but I am not. As Ireland were robbed of a chance to qualify I would naturally support England as I support an English club team, and have a lot of respect ofr English football fans who for the most part have always made me feel welcome at any ground I have visited (Newcastle, Villa & Preston fans more than most) but the small mindedness and pettiness of Spurs fans will continue to amaze me.
Trying to gain some sort of a laugh from a club advertising season tickets on the radio is however not only a new low but an example of why Spurs fans are so thoroughly disliked by other fans.
Good post mate, but you forgot to mention that Defoe is also a massive cock.
To be honest i was a little embarrassed by us advertising on talksport. The idea is cringing alone but some of the phrases on it made me shudder. I remember ripping the piss out of my friend whos a Millwall fan because they advertised on London buses.
But at the end of the day if it sells more tickets its done its job. Interested to see the Davids squeeze every little penny out of every opportunity (not saying its a bad thing).
I am glad we are advertising as it shows that fans have smartened up and are demanding that the daves follow through on their promises to sign big players before renewing their season tickets.
Oh and believe me mate I wanted to mention how much of a cock defoe is but I wasn't going to give them the chance to say my posts was motivated by jealousy
Celts/Skinny Chris………Defoe might be a cock but there can't be one sensible WH fan who wouldn't have him back leading our attack again.
As for winding up the Spuds on their blogs….DON'T BOTHER. They really are knobs.
mate i see where you're coming from and i'd love to have someone of his quality leading our attack…but not him. He put his transfer request in the day he helped us get relegated and then when we wouldnt sell him he got himself sent off within the first 15minutes he was in the Championship.
He pretty much refused to play for the club who had trained him up and introduced him to the big stage.
There are just somethings you dont do when you under contract at a club.
but all this is irrelevant. He would never ever want to play for us again…so i guess the feeling between fans and player are mutual.
Forgiveness is a wonderful thing. If the little git fancies taking our shilling, I'd drive over and collect him myself.
That said, I might kick him up the cohollocks for old time sake.
Here’s my reply I posted to your reply. You pathetic fool.
Utter bollox Celtic spammer. Your selective memory seems to have missed that other useless spammer throwing the ball in the back of the net. Irish and a spammer. What’s not hate. You cut out that 66 bullshit now, not that there was any truth in it, because you lost us this one.
Celtic – just reading post by 'Celtichammer' on West ham Fans website and thought must be you until I read the glowing praise of G and S!
I can only assume that my sad little stalker has started posting under my name again. I only post here and some times on Sams The West Ham Process blog. I gave up posting on teamtalk after the editor told me that the same sad loser was posting under multiple logins all of which would disagree with anything I said.
He pretended to be amongst other things a retired multi milionaire, someone who worked at the club and much more!
There is even a picture of the other CelticHammer! Not sure about West ham process – I thought someone claiming to be from there was banned by Iain for giving you and other regulars on WHTID disgusting abuse?
What site is it?
Someone using the name WestHam Process login here was banned but it wasn't the guy who runs the site. It was the same guy who has clicks the thumbs down button 10 or 15 times.
Imagine doing that for hours and hours logging in and out to click a meanless button hundreds and hundreds of time!
Celtic – the website is WestHamfans.org. If you look at forum topics on right and select 'more' then 'current season' 1st one is 'I hate to say….' Open that and you will see 'CelticHammer'
Hopefully you found the 'other Celtic' – so is he as good looking as you??
Just a note about the goal that never was. I'm obviously annoyed about it but this is just part of the game unfortunately. but without a doubt technology needs to be introduced. Football is the biggest sport in the World, it should be setting the standards for other sports to follow. instead its trailing by a long way.
There has been talk of using video footage but FIFA have said not because it would slow the game down.
As far as goal line technology is concerned Hawk eye have already developed technology where by as soon as the ball crosses the line a beeping noise can be heard in the refs ear piece. This wont slow the game down at all so in that regard there really is no excuse not to introduce it.
Hey Soldier, don't disagree with your comments at all but at the end of the day I still think there has to be personal motivation and desire, even more so when the coach persists with something that is questionable, and there was none because nothing is really affected by them losing or winning with the national side. To see that arse Cole coming off the plane laughing just said it all for me; they just didn't give a damn.
About time a spammer saw the light. One that speaks the truth. Those two inept fools shouldn’t have been anywhere near that squad. You were nearly relegated for a reason.
Should have sold Green and Upson before the Cup, now nobody will take them. Remember Upson's howler vs Burnley away, same thing happened yesterday. We really should get rid of him…his time is up. England were shithouse…hurry up pre-season and may this disaster not impact another Hammers' season.
To be fair as Upson was so poor last season he was hardly going to be the subject of a bidding war. Our one hope was that he had a decent WC and put himself in the shopwindow – unfortunately after this week the only likely shop would be Poundstretcher!
I have read here many dissections of the English problem, so I'll add my two penneth to the mix:
Firstly tactics. Bloody awful from start to finish. In the qualifiers we could largely play whatever system we wanted as the competition was weak enough that we could dominate. Against even slightly stiffer opposition, we were tactically undone – especially in the midfield where we found ourselves crowded out. 4-4-2 is a perfectly good formation – but not up against 5 man midfields.
We were too narrow, is this an Italian thing? Zola seemed to have the same approach last year.
Secondly selection: You can make your own luck here, but we seemed to make our own misfortune. Picking players who were not entirely fit was a huge mistake. Also, the intention was always to put players in positions with which they were not entirely familiar. Lampard or Gerrard, not both. Terry on the Centre Left of defence, it would have been better to choose players for positions, even if that meant leaving some of our most successful players on the bench. Team, not individuals – get the balance right. Why continue to play Rooney in every match when he was clearly not in form and hunting for the ball rather than holding his position?
Thirdly, the players. They looked knackered and dispirited. They also should have behaved better inside the camp in how they aired their grievances. They lost their discipline on the pitch too, Gerrard & Rooney especially guilty of just blasting the ball at first sight of the goal. Lost their shape, lost their heads. No Patience.
Fourth: The FA and the English game. In letting the top flight go, the FA created a behemoth which only feeds itself, starving the rest of the game including the national side. It was an incredibly dumb move for a national association. But everything else they have done in the last 20 years has failed to mitigate this. Wembley, (a disaster), manegerial and coaching appointments, (not particularly good-Keegan & McLaren for example), support for English players, grass roots training, the national training base. Now, they have little power because they gave it all away for a pot of Murdoch's money. They are largely well intentioned amateurs, but we need better management.
Lastly, Youth development: We obviously don't do it right. I don't know what the answer is here, but I don't see the ball control in the English game that I see in the Italian or Spanish league. It's all about speed and we need to learn to play at different tempos, to be comfortable with the ball, to create space off the ball, to read the game. Trevor Brooking is tasked with revamping grass roots as I understand it, but he needs more help from the EPL teams I think and a change in the rules which I understand will force European teams to field a mininimum number of home grown playes might help him get that help.
All valid points Tony but it won't happen why the EPL are in the driving seats, these are the guys who are driving the prices up, these are the guys who despite all the hand wringing and head shaking caused Porttsmouths decline as much as the idiots who run the clubs. The guys are in turn backed by English hating Platini and EUFA who are only interested in clubs who are in the Champions League which suits the EPL because that means the majority of the money goes to Man Utd, Chelsea & Arsenal. Now when you consider that both AFC & CFC quite often put out complete teams without anEnglishman in site it's no wonder England as a team can't compete. After all look at the keeper delimma One finishes bottem, one fourth from bottom & one of them can't get in his first team.
Two excellent posts.
I still can't get the sight of Barry trying to chase the German on the break for the 3rd or was it the 4th goal? Hilarious.
One of the best posts I've read during the World Cup Tony. One Question – what would you think of Roy Hodgson as the next England boss?
From reports this morning, Hodgeson has already signed papers with Liverpool and the two clubs are currently settling compensation for Fulham, but I do think he would have been a great England manager, (and still might be in the future).
I've been thinking about what I wrote, and there's still one thing I just can't fathom. Capello isn't a bad manager, completely the opposite. Why did he pick the out of form, unfit players. Was he under pressure to do so for commercial reasons? Then why did he play the system he did? Was it because he felt backed into a corner because of his previous selection or is he just too stubborn. Was he facing down a player revolt? I can't think so seriously because the players on the pitch would have just shifted the positions to 4-3-3 or more likely 4-5-1 if that's what they wanted to do – the manager could hardly stop them once they went out for the second half against Germany.
Capello has won everything in the club game, you don't just go from Magnificent to Magoo overnight. So why did he appear to have done this so spectacularly in South Africa?
I agree, but it would shake things up a bit. Remember when Peter Taylor was in charge for one game, he gave all the old codgers a boot, gave Becks the armband and effectively ushered in a new generation.
Feels like we need something similar to spark a bit of life in to the team, and the paying public.
All I can say is to all you people (inclusding me) who think that Scotty Parker should have gone to SA instead of that atrocity Gareth Barry, we should be grateful that he was left behind and he can thank his lucky stars.
He doesn't have to come home to the jeers and abuse that he so obviously wouldn't have deserved! His name hasn't been marred by the woefull attempt at football that those (including Green and Matty) so-called world class players attempted in South Africa.
There was no one person to blame for us being humiliated, not Green, Not Upson, Not Rooney and Not Capello. Ok, the buck stops at Capello, just as it did with Zola and his tactics were terrible! But the players (all of them) made no effort to win those games at all. The defenders were all over the place, the strikers were nowhere to be seen and midfield was just a shambles.
If I had to single one player out as being a complete let down, it would be a tough choice as I thouht they were all a let down but my vote would go to Rooney.
And if I had to single one player out as being ok and making some kind of effort, then that's easy! It would be David James.
Just my opinion as always
Matt – as one of Scotty's most vociferous supporters, I echo your thoughts 100%.
Disagree with james – As I said on another forum – imagine if Rob Green had been in goal against the Germans and let one through his legs and one in on the near post?
Ashley Cole looked like a proper footballer to me and Milner did pretty well.
Agendas, agendas, agendas.
When will who ever is in charge of England learn, that picking a bunch of so called superstars does not make a team. Why should most of them have to come from the top four sides in the prem, or because of the names that have been built up for them by the media. I rememember when Trevor Brooking was worried about his England place when West Ham got relegated, Ron Greenwood told him it does not matter if your good enough you will get picked.
So when are we going to pick players that are good enough, and not because of their names. I bet there are players from so called smaller clubs that would be proud to wear the Enland shirt and run their hearts out for thier country. Its time to pick a team and not a bunch of stars.
"Yes, you have to blame the players for their abject performances, but if they are playing in an unnatural system, and in unnatural positions, this is what happens. "
Are you having a laugh? unnatural system! 442. Capello played all the way through qualifying and almost the same team.
Capello has nearly always played 442 in all the club he has managed. Most of out players are just not good enough or clever enough for international football.
couldnt agree more
Good to see that even in defeat Capello is as arrogant as ever. Apparently we didnt do well because the players were tired?! no other reason?
Well he might as well quit now because the players arent going to get anymore rest before the Euros!
6 million a year (not including his massive coaching staff)? why dont we just pay and ok English manager 1 million and plough the rest into the grass roots?
correct.
give me some excellent ideas. thanks man