I note that there was a recent report in the Daily Express that, if appointed, Avram Grant will also bring in his assistant and back room staff from Pompey. It cited the names of his Pompey staff and, to be honest, the only one I knew was Ian Woan, the former Notts Forest winger.
If Grant is appointed, I see him as a short to medium term appointment. A three year contract should be just about right. Part of the rationale for appointing him appears to be that he can stablise the ship, on a modest budget, whilst the club concentrates upon reducing its debt. In the meantime, it is reasoned that he might be successful in picking up a League or FA Cup win and Europa qualification along the way.
If that is the rationale, then it can either be seen as realistic or unambitious, depending on your point of view. If the appointment is a given, then how about looking to plan a longer-term succession. Why not dust off Ron Greenwood’s old England succession plan, foolishly ditched by the FA after the appointment of Bobby Robson.
Ron Greenwood learnt from West Germany’s model of appointing future managerial candidates to the coaching staff of their national team, developing them alongside the current Manager and ensuring continuity and consistency in eventually selecting a successor. At club level, Greenwood had previously followed much the same strategy with the development and eventual succession of John Lyall.
Why not retain Kevin Keen as first team coach and appoint a former Hammers player as Grant’s Assistant. Alvin Martin’s name has been mentioned and perhaps Di Canio or Cottee could also be considered? Or what about offering Bilic the role as Assistant, to enable him to acclimatise to PL management, with the promise of eventually moving up to take on the role?
The obvious response to this proposal is that Grant will want to appoint his own coaches. He may not want to work with appointees not of his choosing? That’s fair enough I suppose, but Gold & Sullivan should consider whether a complete break from the West Ham tradition is the way that the club should go? Or whether a new Hammers managerial dynasty should be developed within the context of a transitional regime led by Grant?
Some skeptics may argue that the ‘West Ham tradition’ has not historically been that successful, in terms of honours won, and that a new broom is to be welcomed. Well, that’s a legitimate view, but what’s to say that a Bilic, Cottee or Di Canio could not combine the West Ham approach with increased future success. Also, the appointment of managers without a West Ham background have not always been successful and in one or two cases have been disastrous. In fact, Ron Greenwood is just about the only example of a non-West Ham man who was an unmitigated success in the manager’s role.
From my perspective, it just appears that from Lyall’s sacking in 1989, through Redknapp’s dismissal in 2001 and the 2006 takeover of the club, there has been a net loss of identity and heritage. One of the strengths of West Ham is the way in which fans identify with the club and the management of men brought up in the West Ham way. This proposal could be a way of reinforcing that and negating the dangers of a complete regime change under Grant.
The club should not ‘chuck the baby out with the bath water.’ In hopefully moving forward, the club need to preserve that which is valuable and worthwhile, in our traditions, and look to change that which historically has not worked.
Surely that is the best basis upon which to proceed?
SJ. Chandos.
yakubu 7m
SJ, your paragraph beginning 'From my perspective…' sums up perfectly the way I see things, regarding loss of identity and heritage.
We are in danger of becoming 'just another club' (if we haven't already).
I'm not sure that Greenwood could have been described as an unmitigated success- sure he won a couple of cups but given that he presided over boys of 66.. he also invariably led the team to glorious mediocrity usually finishing in the bottom half of the table and let's not forget when his anointed one took over we were relegated soon after. i'd say he left us a legacy of dust and delusion – nice bloke that he was and pretty football that he played, as Clougie said of Brooking floats like a butterfly and stings like one too!" also not sure that national manager Bilic would be content to be a number two or three as you suggest.
Dust and delusion…spot on master Kevin.
Bilic ticks every box, as far as I'm concerned.
I still believe that now more than ever we need to appoint someone with a strong Hammers identity.
The fans are to say the least disillusioned with what has been happening at the club of late. Some of us have genuine and understandable fear about the clubs future.
I am really concerned that what makes us WestHam is being dismantled and scrapped in order to make the club fit someone's business model and all of the compromises being made are being done so at the expense of the clubs legacy.
I may have to put up with a lot of stick for my views about our owners but my biggest problem is that I can not see two "fans" making the decisions currently being made by our chairmen, to me they have the hallmarks of decisions made by accountants.
I have yet to hear anything by way of actual rebuttal from fans of the daves but even so I can not understand how even the most ardent supporter of the new owners can be blind to the essence that makes us special being chipped away at with every passing day.
Leaving aside the type of moron who things that publicly devaluing the club by £20M is a good thing surely people must be worried about what is happening.
If Grant is bringing 3 Pompey coaches then where does that leave the likes of Kevin Keen and Alex Dyer?
More over if Grant intends to bring in 3 Pompey coaches and 4 Pompey players how does anyone think its a good thing to have 8 personnel from a club that finished bottom of the table arrive at the club?
What we need now is someone who can unite the players and fans behind him, all the tactics in the world can bring back the pride and passion that has been a hallmark of this club.
All our clamour for Grant and Pompey players is based on the fact that they are cheap and available and that kind of thinking will eventually destroy our club
If the news of us agreeing a deal with Yakubu is true then i will be very pissed off. Another complete joke of a player. He's just as fat as McCarthy and even more injury prone. He's fallen out of favour at Everton for a very good reason. He likes to sit on his arse and collect his money with out even trying to break a sweat!!
And for 7 million?! DAVIDS YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT!!! Carry on like this and you can shove my season ticket where the sun dont shine cos we will get relegated!!
no wonder renewal numbers are so low this year.
We should be signing proper athletes who are driven by more than greed!
There is also the problem of signing too many african players who then bugger off for their nations cup just like happened at Pompey as it happens.
Whats that line about people who done learn from history being dommed to repeat it?
Agree SkinnyChris you compare Aiyegbeni Yakubu's performance this season P30 G5 he does not seem like a good prospect. Why would we choose him to replace Carlton Cole P30 G10?
Answer: cheaper wages? well since his strike rate is twice that of Carlton's that would be why!
IMHO a step backward.
And why do people want to replace our England no 1 keeper with a 39 year old? How does that improve our chances for next season?
Was with you right up until the goalkeeper part. Cash in on Green now, says I.
I was very disappointed to see Yakubu could be first new arrival. I'd much rather Fletcher from Burnley who is younger and looked the business against us.
However I don't agree with Celtic's point about Pompey players who have just been relegated not being suitable. When we last went down clubs were very keen to snap up Cole, Carrick, Johnson, Kanoute etc. I'd love to get James back if Green is heading off to Arsenal while O'Hara would be a great addition and perhaps Belhadj too
Stratford I am not saying there are not good players to be had from Pompey I am saying bringing in 8 players/staff from their is not a good idea!
Yes I agree a shed load of backroom staff to replace Keen and Dyer (if indeed that is what might happen) is overkill. I can't see why every football manager has to bring in his croanies – it doesn't happen in other walks of life.
Does in mine.
Now I am intrigued as to what you do!
Just seen my home town club Norwich have signed Elliott Ward on a free. Surprised he didn't make it
[...] Should We Dust Off Greenwood's Old Succession Plan? | West Ham …I note that there was a recent report in the Daily Express that, if appointed, Avram Grant will also bring in his assistant and back room staff from Pompey. [...]
Getting back to SJ's post: whilst talking about tradition and the West Ham way are all well and good it must be remembered that football has changed out of all recognition since the 60s and 70s. The lack of players spending their whole careers with one club is a symptom of this and that means that loyalties and dynasties just don't get built.
Someone – Celtic I think – has mentioned the fact that we are different. Any fan of any club will tell you the same. In reality most clubs are much the same. And the people who run them and play for them don't have many differences either.
What West Ham need more than anything at the moment is stability to allow the club to get back on a more even keel following the farcical management of Brown, Magnusson and Duxbery along with the fall out from the Tevez affair. Whether Gold and Sullivan can deliver that I don't know but Grant would seem to be the right sort of character, from a football perspective, to have a chance of contributing to achieving that. He may not be, but we will find out soon.
Roy maybe you have to grow up far away from the Boleyn as a Hammers fan to appreciate the respect people have for our club (maybe had is the right word now), our history and our tradition of playing football the right way.
There are hundreds of clubs but there is only 1 Academy. You never hear any other ground spoken about how special the atmosphere is under the lights. No other club is so associated with the greatest triumph in English football.
I know all fans love their clubs and all thing there is something special about their clubs but you only have to look at the effect West Ham has on great players who have played there to know that it is truely one of a kind.
I dread the thought of seeing a WestHam team made up of cheap foreign imports, ageing free transfer journey men and over the hill mercenaries looking for one last payday while our young players languish in the reserves and struggle to get a chance to show what they can do in the first team.
This is why we need someone who sees all of this in charge of the team, say what you want about Zola but in his playing days he was the archetypal West Ham player.
We must continue to produce the best and brightest of British football and not simply become surrogates to nurture young players for bigger clubs.
Turning us into some nameless, faceless, business model of a club is simply not an option.
Celtic, have you looked at our team over the past few seasons? There seems to have been quite a few cheap foreign imports (Mido, Ilan, Franco etc), ageing free transfer journeymen (Ljunberg – excuse the spelling – etc) and over the hill mercenaries (Ljunberg – excuse the spelling – etc) and that has been going on for some years now. We are like many other clubs in that respect and the difference between us and those who don't invest in this type of player is that the others have EXPENSIVE foreign imports. That's the result of combination of financial inbalance in the game (Champions League money), rich benefactors (Chelsea, Man City) and badly run clubs (West Ham, Portsmouth etc).
I admire your desire to see our club as we like to think it used to be but things have changed so much that I am afraid it will never be like that again – if it really ever was. As I mentioned in a post some days ago, we haven't played in the "West Ham way" for yonks. Yes, we have to keep trying to produce youngsters and there is nothing better than seeing one of "our own" come through, if only to know that we will be able to get a few million for them in a couple of years time. That's the way it is ,the way it's been for some time now and the way it will continue to be – although I would just love it to change.
Oh, and can you let me know where you buy your rose-tinted glasses. I'd love to get some. LOL
sorry! but now the word is Parkers to hard in the tackle to play for England.
Haaaaaaaaaa what ever next.
Barry's a plodder.
You asked why not have an apprentice coach working with Avram Grant SJ. The answer, sadly, is because nobody has the patience to bring them through any more. No-one's got the balls to stand by anyone for more than a season and a half in today's climate of quick wins and speedboat turns. Not Club Owners. Not the players. Not the Fans & definitely not the media.
As much as it got slagged off I liked Project Football's medium to long term approach. It's the only way West Ham are ever going to get anywhere – by having longer term aims and sticking to the plan.
Gav I couldn't agree more, although Project football was a bit too much like political spin for my liking the concept was the best way forward for West Ham in my opinion.
Still having major reservations about Grant, 3 league wins for Pompey is not inspiring me.
Cheers Alan. Let's hope the two Davids stick by their pledge – especially point 3: –
3. More investment in the Academy
Tony Carr remains at the heart of the club and his work in developing future first-team players remains essential for the long-term success of this club. We will make sure homegrown talent nurtured in the 'West Ham way' will always be given the chance to complement established players brought in from elsewhere.
I know it's a bit sad but I've kept a copy of their pledge so that I can re-post little reminders here every now and again. A pledge is a pledge and I fully expect them to stick by it.
Gav for point 3 to be a realistic long term ambition I think Tony Carr needs to be nurturing not only talented young footballers but also a long term replacement for himself to ensure continuity. I do not know if this is already the case.
I don't know what toy think about all these stories, one says that Grant is going to be our manger, another saying Clarke has been sacked or will quit, then the stories of Henry and Yakubu being linked to us, and grant bringing pomey players like O'hara and Boateng with him and all his background staff. Franco isn't being resigned along with Mido and Ilan. Diamanti and Behrami have been told to find new clubs. To be honest the simple facts are:
1. We currently have no manager
2. Without a manager we shouldn't be buying or selling
3. Franco not being resigned is a disgrace, i personly think he is a touch of class.
4. Not bothered about Mido but i quite like Ilan.
5. If Diamanti and Behrami have been told to find a new club, well the two daves are total plonkers.
I genuinly wish that the manger will be announced ASAP as we can then look at adding some new additions to the squad and selling of a few fringe players. Once all this is done, we can then hope for a much better season next time around. Come on Sullivan and Gold, get this sorted out.
2. We hav
Sorry to change the subject but SSN (Yes I know it's SSN) have reported that Behrami is pretty much certain to stay next season! Good news I guess?
"Valon Behrami's agent claims to be '99 per cent certain' his client will be staying at West Ham.
The versatile Swiss star has been the subject of mounting transfer talk of late, with his future believed to be hanging in the balance.
Rumours of a proposed move to Serie A outfit Palermo refuse to go away, with the Italians admitting to holding an interest in the player.
West Ham have no intention of selling, though, with the club keen to avoid a repeat of their 2009/10 relegation dogfight.
They have revealed that they are willing to listen to offers for a number of their first-team squad, but have made it clear that Behrami is not among them.
Happy
That means the 25-year-old, who is currently preparing for World Cup duty, will still be at Upton Park come the end of the summer.
"Valon is thinking about the World Cup, his future will be tackled later," Behrami's agent, Alessandro Beltrami, told tuttomercatoweb.
"West Ham have declared him non-transferable, so I think it is 99 per cent certain he will remain in England.
"Talk of Palermo? That is good because it means the player has done well. However, we are happy that West Ham have made him unavailable for transfer."
Matt
i think this basically proves the yak rumours are fake because most of them have behrami leaving just another lie well i hope it is anyway to injury prone and old but the again would stop him scoring against us
Probably good news about Behrami staying – I say probably as he didn't perform in the season just gone as he did previous year. Whether that was down to injury I don't know. However as you say the story is totally opposite to what has been written about the player before. I have lost count of transfers to which we have been linked. Its hard not to take an interest but I wish nothing was said until something actually happened
agreed on no new stories untill it has happened
all sorts off names flying around, team looks like this at moment.
Prince b tang……Parker….Ohara……..LBM
…………..Beneyoun…..The Yak……………..
I thought LBM had gone
didn't he have a heart to heart.
The sources of all, or most, of these stories are agents or the media. That makes them rumours. It's the silly season again and I can't see there being much transfer movement until after the World Cup anyway.
Roy – just clicked the thumbs up to put you back to a +1 because you are absolutley spot on fella. All this drivel does my head in and 98% of it is utter tosh. I am firmly in the wait and see camp, as I said to the Millwall plank this morning at school who took great delight in telling me that Scotty is off to Villa (cos he read it in the currant bun). Heard it all before. Can't remember a close season when we weren't going to lose Green, Upson, Parker and Cole and when there wasn't going to be a West Ham fire sale. YAAAAAAAAWN
Oh the joys of the silly season……… The facts are that papers need to be filled with stories and we are an easy target to fill them. Journos have seen the 2 Dave's work closely with Barry Silkman, seen Silkman act in the sale of Yakuba to Everton and seen him drop down the pecking order……1+1+1= newspaper story (or 5 to you or me!). I'd rather not waste my time prevaricating over rumour but focus on the facts.
Fact – Franco has been released. Not fussed to be honest, he was ok but at 33 he was certainly not the future.
And that's it……..everything else is rumour and tomorrow's fish and chip wrapping.
I'll leave my comments/ire/happiness/disgust/etc and until after the facts are confirmed.
another thumbs up from me Jolly!
Speculation, Speculation and more Speculation.
Lets give G&S a chance hey, they may just prove us all wrong.
Agreed.
I agree, I don't think the Yakuba rumor has much substances. His wages demands would be as high if not greater than Cole's current contract (I believe), and it's not as his we'd be making THAT much money (in soccer terms) on the difference between their transfer fees.
Hence why I think it's it's a bit off the mark.