David Sullivan’s dream of taking West Ham into the Olympic stadium may not be as fanciful as some may believe. Until now one of the main obstacles has been the oft repeated claim that it is strongly opposed by the owners of the Westfield shopping complex on the site.
The last thing they need to fill the stores is an invasion of Hammers fans every other Saturday afternoon, or so goes the argument. However, I understand that this is not the view of Westfield and never has been. I gather from reliable sources that John Burton, the man in charge of the Stratford Westfield project is not against West Ham taking over the stadium and thinks it may even be helpful.
Mr Burton, the development director of Westfield Stratford, is understood to believe that West Ham could attract extra shoppers. The boys can go to the soccer while the girls go shopping, then the whole family can all meet up for a meal afterwards. He is said to think that West Ham’s presence could help him persuade the train companies to make more frequent stops at Stratford. The potential problem of shoppers mingling with fans could be overcome with separate accesses to the shops and the stadium.
Moreover, Mr Burton, quite properly, holds the view that Australian owned Westfield will accept whatever decision the authorities make about the post Olympics fate of the stadium.
So where did the notion come from that Westfield want to keep West Ham out? The most popular theory is that it was the result of an aside made by Sir Stuart Lipton, a property developer involved in the Westfield scheme, who reportedly said the shopping company might not take kindly to sharing the site with a football club. Apparently, it was no more than a piece of idle speculation that took on a life of its own.
There are still serious problems with the idea, mainly Seb Coe’s pledge that the stadium must continue to be available for ‘world class’ athletics events after 2012. Football fans do not like the idea of being separated from the players by eight lanes of asphalt which could kill the atmosphere. Some say this fear is hugely exaggerated. And it is possible temporary seating could be erected over the track and removed for athletics events.
More probably, if West Ham were to move into the stadium, they would have to pay up to £50 million to provide a major athletics venue elsewhere, possibly by upgrading Crystal Palace (the national sports centre not the bankrupt football club). A West Ham move to the Olympic stadium also has growing political support. The Labour mayor of Newham Sir Robin Wales is strongly in favour. Boris Johnson is sympathetic. As is, I am led to believe, David Cameron’s Conservative Government in waiting. With the nation squillions of pounds in debt already, the Tories won’t want to dole out even more to prop up an empty, athletics white elephant if West Ham can fill it with paying spectators week in week out.
Lastly, there is Lord Seb Coe. As an Olympic gold medalist, he is heavily committed to ensuring there is an athletics heritage at the stadium. And he is a Chelsea fan. Oh well.
Some good points Celtic..I would be broardly in favour of the move to the Olympic stadium, from a selfish point of view at least.
The promise of lower ticket prices is a massive part of that..I just can't justify going to west ham and doing the best part of £80 ( ticket, travel, and a few ((several)) beers) on more than a few occasions a season. I believe there are many people like me so cheaper tickets should go some way to increasing attendance..
Secondly the transport links at Upton part are completely innadequate for our needs, (increasing the capacity of upton park would add to the problem) moving to Stratford would benefit each and every fan in that sense..
I completey agree that any sort of running track would be a disaster and am glad that Gold has confirmed this will not happen.
As you rightly point out the sums would have to add up, The Double D's wouldn't move if they didn't, they are buisness men after all, and the problems you mention overcome. But I believe than can be..well I hope
Rik there is a difference in what is good for Sullivan and Gold and what is good for WestHam. Both have extensive propery interests and getting Upton Park on the cheap would make a very appealing option for them. They could actually get the ground for nothing by committing to some sort of staggered pay out when the developed units are sold and simply increase the clubs debts to cover the cost of redeveloping the new ground.
The single biggest cost on any development is buying the site, its simply dead money , you are paying for it from the outset and you are a long time getting it back.
I think you are asking all the right questions Celtic, though I think that maybe the one regarding filling the staduim has already been answered by the fact that gate prices would be set to fall significantly and transport links massively improved. That is about the only part of the plan so far that I like the sound of.
I have a problem with the stadium design itself. Because the stadium is an oval, even without the running track, the pitch would have to 'old wembley style', very wide, and still there would have to be a greater distance between the goal mouths and the stands, and again a similar distance at the halfway line. If the crowd are the twelfth man at a home game, that revoves them significantly from the action. It was ok at wembley for cup finals, but would it work week in week out in the league, on cold February nights in the sleet & rain?
The financial element is more your field than mine, but I have to agree that it seems crazy to spend a huge amount of money redeveloping a ground you don't own, and more developing an athletics ground you can't even use.
Having lived near Newcastle for a few years and, since leaving, going back for West Ham away matches, it's incredibly noticeable how many shoppers are wearing Toon shirts and clearly going to the game after shopping. Any shopping mall developer who doesn't want 40,000 extra potential customers 19 times a year probably wouldn't be in business for very long.
Seb Coe was vociferous in his support for the running track to stay at Eastlands and lost out. If Cameron’s mob get in and are still there at the end of 2012 I cannot not for the life of me see him losing the argument again.
The fact that Blair sold off all the school playing fields should have nullified any British bid anyway, but that’s another argument.
Man City have got a 250 year lease – what’s the proposal for us?
Personally, I think that 1) the track will stay until someone decides that it wasn’t such a good idea after all and 2) we move in 2014
At least the train link will be better than that crappy little station in Manchester.
Just got back from night out at the west end met a few french football fans,they told me we done well not to sign Gudjohnson hes legs have gone,he was useless.
Just been talking to a good Spurs mate of mine here and he is praying they dont get the Iceberg,he reckons he will have splinters from the bench,Luca Toni carried off after 3 minutes the other night,be bold go get someone younger who actually wants to perform for us not Mr Blobby!
Good work by the 2 Davids keep fighting the fight True Hammers!
CH, some very good points – all of which I would like answered, but we may need to compromise on some to get the best result on others. I would hope that, if we paid for CP to be renovated AND the extra work required to adjust the olympic stadium (govts fault that they didnt think fwd enough for running costs etc to include conversion to footy stadium and dont now want to be stuck with a white elephant), we would be able to get some kind of stake in the ground. Maybe 25% and then rent the rest from them on an agreed schedule of costs. Whether that would be just for the footy season or year round would dictate whether we could get other income from the stadium. I would suggect that additional non-footy income could be a useful revenue stream. We may also be able to agree some schedule for taking over ownership gradually.
I share yr concerns about filling a massive stadium, but feel that this could be mitigated by selling seats off in concentric circles going out/up and thereby ensuring fans are kept packed in and close to the pitch (worked fairly well at a Sao Paolo game I once attended – no lack of atmosphere there!).
I guess we'll have to wait and see what D&D can negotiate with the OPLC. My view is that WE are in a strong position in that, it would help us to move but it would help the OPLC/Govt more if we took over the stadium. The existing plan calls for them to reduce the size of the stadium to 20-30,000 at a cost of £50-100m? They would then be liable for continued running costs ad nauseum ad infinitum….. ££££££££££££££££££££££
Whereas, if we moved in we COULD leave all the seats in place (just not use the outer ring) and cover (somehow) the athletics track with seats. Running costs would be more than UP (covered by us), but I can't see there being a massive differential between the two. OPLC could spend their re-dev money on fixing crystal palace and our 'investment' in making the ground work for us could be seen as a part-payment on ownership. FYI – the Dome cost over £20m in one year to keep empty!!! It cost, overall, £850m to build/run and was eventually 'sold' on a buy now pay later scheme for what COULD amount to £550m. So, based on that model, how much would we have to pay to get the OS???
Off Topic: I tried to login after last nights games to no avail as the server had gone walkabout yet again. OnceIaian moves to pastures new it will be better for everyone.
However back to last night and Congratulations to MU over City & I hope that Garry Cook was feeling extra hungry after the game and had enough room to eating his words!Lol!!
Back to the Stadium: I feel that after the games the committee & government do not want to be left with a White Elephant like the Millenium dome to the O2Arena. we all knoe how long that move took. OK we want an athletics legacy. WHY the OSC do not upgrade Crystal Palace instead of leaving it as a complete greek ruin.
NO investement for past legacies as was White City. Having a running track &/or meetings 2/3 per year with only 5000 to fill a 25000 seater on the night is pure folly. It makes more sense to convert to a football stadium for 50000patrons (albeit the wrong shape) A Ring or Circle. Whether we will move or not , time will tell and only thing to say. WATCH This SPACE!LOL!!
Good points, Fishy.
I think that, eventually, the government will surely look at what has happened to the facilities that were built for both the Sydney and Athens Olympics. They are now locked up and unused. There is not enough major athletics meetings to warrant an athletics-only stadium and if there is a couple of brain cells left in Westminster they will surely want to see the Olympic Stadium used on a regular basis after the games. They, and the Olympic committee bang on about leaving legacies and this is a chance to really leave one that is valuable and well used.
I'm in favour of a move but only if a number of key issues are addressed. As has been mentioned, the transport infrastruscture around Upton Park is currently poor and I reckon the club would have real problems getting permission to increase capacity based on that alone.
Heard we're in for Moses at Palace. Could be difficult if rumors are true that not only our top 4 want him but also the big boys in Spain. i wonder if we'd be paying for Palace's valuation or the administrator's valuation?
Van, probably a little of both, but the administrator would have the final say over price, as his agent would want what is best for the player.
Mind you, from what I've heard of The Westfield's glossier sister out west, I'm not sure I want to stump up for the wife to spend 3 hours traipsing round it (please let there NOT be a Disney Store in there!!) How's about we relocate somewhere just outside Lakeside instead ??!!
Yeah, Lakeside gets my vote … handy for Ikea.
With only 5days left in this window, it now looks as if we are linked with a move for both Bentley & Hutton possibly even Robbie Keane. Whether or not Double D & Harry will do business after Gudjohnsson we will see & before everyone has a heart attack over the potential move (Its is only business).
lord Coe's face wouldn't look out of place on one of G & S dildos
Thanks for that, Iain, very interesting.
One point
"an invasion of Hammers fans every other Saturday afternoon"
Don't you mean an invasion of Hammers fans one Saturday afternoon every couple of months,
And not for 3 months in the summer…….
jimenez has gone to parma good news but WHO WE GOING TO GET ?
Tom, Dick, &Harry!
Please not Harry! Or is Dick and Harry one person?
I think we are in for an interesting day … like the man says, watch this space … and (whisper it) in Zola we trust!
Eidur and Zola must be good buddies?But Old Hairy Redneck man if he was Pinocchio,s brother they would be conjoined twins!When one door closes another one open,sthere are more opportunities sunday is the final day I believe,here is hoping,let us all wish for younger and better people but I am wondering about Zola,s ability to convince people to come and play for him,if you cant get a mate who can you get?
Aussie, wasn't Gudjohnson Zola's choice … I read earlier in the week that the two D's didn't rate him anyway …
Aussie, i think its Monday at 5 for the window to close. i do agree with you, i for one will be very very relieved if the filth do sign him, i dont want him, the only thing that hurts is the way its been done, nice to see things dont change when new owners come in about the way we sign players, i thnk we should have had something in writing before we gave the bloke a medical and booked the hotel, typical West Ham. i am worried however about Zola's choice of players, i do need to know who's choice Jiminez was? and GZ has stated he wanted Kovac, mmmm…
mmm, Monday at 5 unless one of the Big Four haven't finished doing business, in which case take as long as you like, chaps.
If we don't sign the Eiderdown I think we'll have had lucky escapes regards him and RVN.
spot on Graybo!!
i agree with you on both them, 100k a week for RVN was just stupid and Fishfinger boy is soo past he's sell by date that Bejams have taken him off the shelf! as previously posted let the filth pay off he's gambling debts and let him get splinters on that bench, just shows what a mug old twitchy is!! Franco is a better option than EG will ever be.
On the stadium topic i do lean towards CH's thinking, i do know CH is anti golivan so he's comments could sometimes be a little biased (sorry CH) but i do think he has a point, in all honesty i think we have to realise our true expectations, expand the East and fill in the corners and we're done, we dont need the Olympic stadium in my opinion, we cant fill the one we have, i know about the prices before anyone says about it, i'm a family man so i know but we didnt sell out against the filth and thats just poor. As for the travel, we've been at the Boleyn for how many years and no moaning about it, theres talk of a Meccanno stadium and everyone says about the travel!!!, just look at the shiny new stadia around, dull lifeless and not there own…..
I realise you have a point Digger, however you must look for ward anotther 10yrs & future commercial investment etc. & UP will not have it. IF DS says that he wants to bring football back to the people at prices they are able to afford, then a move to OS with the cheapest prices in the PL is the way forward!
Digger the most honest words are spoken about Redknapp by Billy Bonds on the after dinner circuit when asked about him the reply is always the same SPIV,we all know how he shafted king Billy,I hope he ruins Spurs,Karma!
Radio report this morning saying WE might sign Robbie Keane,fellas fit,plays prem football,would welcoming him with open arms,I think Cole and keane would be a good balanced combination.
Why is it though, that Keane hasn't settled at either Spuds (this time) or Liverpool? I know he didn't get played at Anfield, but now he's not getting on with Harry either?
To fail to make an impact at one club might be unfortunate or poor luck, but he has a history of failing to make an impact at one club after another, first Leeds then Inter, then Liverpool and now Spuds, with one gloden period at Spuds (07-08) and his bright start at Wolves his best seasons.
Is it a personality thing, becaue there is no doubt about his talent. Would he disrupt the team or add to it?
Tony (fender strat) make no mistake Keane is quality,and Harry prefers big man little man up front.Gudjohson makes no sense I know,but Harrys obviously thinks he's getting something special.
In my opinion there is no way on earth we are going to get Keane. . . .being Irish I would love to see him at our club and I think his work rate and finishing beside Cole would be a perfect combo. He is Spurs club captain and I Tax Face Redknapp has shown he will not do us any favours so I just can't see him leaving. Bently – no thanks, Hutton – can't see it . . . looks to me like its just Benni . .still at least we haven't sold anyone (oh yeah except Quashie and Jiminez!!!)
i would take a chance on Moses as well and Hutton but not Bentley.
Keane, very talented fella but also a very strong character, i hope zola or clarke can handle that. Hutton not a bad call. Moses….don't know enough about him, but i gather he didn't play last night because the administrators want him fit to sell on this window. Think he may be a gamble, i dont think the Davids are into gambling that much.
SCUM SIGN GUDJOHNSON
im glade we haven't got another old fairt at the club now we can move on.
the filth are welcome to him….we should count ourselves lucky, come on west ham set your sights highr than Bejam Boy!!!
I am all for the move to the Olmpic stadium … but as before there ae too many what if's … only time will tell … but access by public transport and cheaper ticket prices are a major factor right now …
Give it a rest Celtic, your persistent pessimistic slant on everything is tedious
The Disneyland park always has been my family’s favourite place to go in the summer. My kids love to go there yearly to be on the rides and the water park. This spot is a must go for a family trip at least once in your life span. The tickets can be a bit expensive, but it is really worth the charge!