Why did I become involved in WHTID? Well, I was one of that 99% of web traffic that only read the blog. Then after last season’s 0-2 home defeat to Spurs I checked out the site and the contents moved me to make my first impassioned post.
From that point onwards I become a regular, combating the pessimism around issues such as the club’s finances, the alleged fire sale of players and further punishment arising from Tevez; as well as and the early recognition that European qualification was a possibility (on 27 December 2008 actually). I also started my own regular ‘tongue-in-cheek Chandos awards on a Sunday night, reviewing and highlighting the hostile coverage of the club in the week’s press.
Later, Iain invited me to co-blog on the site with him. I naturally accepted and I have thoroughly enjoyed myself blogging on whatever issues take my fancy. I just tend to blog now, rather than participate on the threads, because quite honestly I felt awkward doing both.
I came to realise that you need to maintain a certain critical distance to blog. If you are forever going on to the threads defending yourself, and your views, then it becomes both time consuming and self-defeating. As such, I do not respond to most ‘criticism’ these days as a matter of policy.
My attitude is that if people enjoy my blogs then that is great, if they do not like them then that’s too bad! For instance, what do I care if someone thinks they are being clever by misrepresenting one of my posts to ‘big themselves up’ on the site! What do I care if it is suggested that I have reinforced tabloid press distortion even though a large part of my cannon of contributions on here (going way back before such people even contributed) proves otherwise. It’s just laughable really!
The latest outbreak of bickering on the blog focused my mind on these type of issues. Although I necessarily take a more detached view these days, I do truly believe in the value of this site. It should be a place where West Ham fans can debate issues in the knowledge that they will not be attacked or abused. We are all West Ham fans afterall! I would have thought people wanting that type of aggressive exchange would have inflicted it on opposing fans, rather than fellow Hammers?
Do not get me wrong, it is easy for people to misunderstand other people’s comments online and respond a little too briskly. I formerly got in to rare spates with such good fellows as Roshi, Headmaster and Clack over mis-understandings. The difference is I soon recognised my mistake and I think I was a big enough to publicly apologise and/or try to sort it out. I certainly would not hold a grudge or start a silly vendetta. My attitude in all things is that you may have a disagreement, but once it is over, it is over and forgotten.
Perhaps I am just getting too old for that type of thing? Perhaps, but I do not think so. I am very accomplished at polemic, but I tend to reserve it for politics and my non-football writing. Afterall, why would I launch polemics against fellow Hammers? With your own fans, you should take a far more moderate and amicable approach. Debate energetically yes, but always, as James Connolly said in opposing sectarianism, keep sight of the 90% that unites you, rather than the 10% that divides you!
Having discussed the issues with Iain, I have offered to help him out a bit more with maintaining standards on the blog. He has given me the authority (if I need it) to delete offensive posts and issue warnings/yellow cards. I will not be moderating the site, but will try to help stop any destructive behaviour before it gets out of hand and starts to alienate other posters.
I am in total agreement with Iain that there is no way that a teamtalk type of situation will be allowed to ruin this site. Such behaviour simply will not be tolerated on here. Full stop! I would also appeal to people who have previously been put off by aggression on the site to come back. Especially those such as Clack that I may have inadvertedly upset in the past. I cannot be more open or honest than that! I do, however, think it is a good idea to lead by example in this matter.
Ending on a positive note, I fully expect that posters will, indeed, ’behave’ and we can all get back to the business of discussing all things West Ham Utd FC. Afterall, thats what we all want to do, not spend all our time arguing and constantly defending ourself.
Perhaps it would help if contributors recalled how they, themselves, first started posting on the site and what they liked about it?
ps. I have just heard about the premature retirement of Dean Ashton. What a tragedy for the player and our club. It just shows you that just one poor challenge in training can end an entire career. Best wishes to Dean for his future.
pps. Well said Devo in condemning the prior comments about the player’s weight and professional commitment.
SJ Chandos.
As usual, a very considered and commendable post, and commitment, SJ.
I like your posts, better than the average spammer.
SJ, I was a member here for a long time, I don't want to say what my name was but I will say that I came a long time ago, made a few friends such as yourself and a few others (Headmaster, Roshi etc…). Then the blog started to get a bit silly, like it is now. I left.
I popped back a little while after and it seemed to have calmed down, although a lot of the regulars I remembered had gone. I stayed and contributed.
However now, I can see that it has become nothing more than a playground with insult after insult flying aorund. There are members here that really need to know how act with other poeple, there is a member that has been asked to leave a few blogs because he has ruined them and there are genuine, intelligent and articulate poeple here.
Although, all the time you have the idiots, it won't change and those regulars will not return.
Shame.
Big week this weem ex-member – my hope would be that you follow SJCs plea and at least see if things can be improved with the new safeguards in place. The more balanced posters there are is likely to drive away the WUMs, no?
Completely agree Headmaster. The only think is that some people seem to be able to say what they want, post what they want and when someone questions it, they get abuse hurled at them. And these are rewgular members I'm talking about.
And seriously, posts that take up most of the page, which have quite clearly been copied from other places shouldn't be allowed. They are too hard to overlook etc…
What would definitely get me thinking about returning is if Iain included the widget that allowed members to ignore other members posts (of their choice)
An insightful and well thought out article, SJ.
Like you I was always just a reader of the posts on here, taking the plunge and getting involved no more than a few days ago. All being well I hope to be commenting more and more as time goes by – here for the duration.
I'd like to add that I myself, along with a fellow West Ham supporter, run a football forum for fans of all clubs, and so we know firsthand what it's like to have to step up disciplinary procedures and the ilk, it's not easy by a long shot. We all love banter, but some choose to tread a very fine line between banter and derogatory assaults, most of the time surpassing either or both.
The internet as a whole is a revolutionary tool, until the minority wish to spoil it for the majority. Personally I think sites which are largely dependent on user interaction, like this site for example, would be far better places to convene if everyone were implored to post and/or comment under their very own name, rather than made up names and the like, pretty much in the same way sites like Facebook do. Implementing that is far from simple though, more so given the potential implications involved.
Keep up the sterling work though SJ, and Iain.
DayDon
That is a very sensible solution, the only downside would be employers catching you out for not working by spending to much time posting.
The recent spat on this site was handbags at best, and very boring for everybody else. I hope these people have learnt something from the affair.
We are all supporters and only wish are team and club success in the future.
But people haven't learnt because members have left because they are fed up with all teh abuse and personal attacks.
And it's not as though the people doing to attacks have anything to offer in way of posts.
That goes for all of them.
The most effective way of dealing with troublesome posters, otherwise known as 'trolls', is to cut them off completely (for lack of a better phrase).
Don't acknowledge them, don't give them the time of day, don't respond or react to them at all. Their insatiable appetite is only fed by responses and reactions, nothing more, nothing less.
If all of the good and decent folk acted as a collective, bound to resisting retaliation, then the minority of 'trolls' would eventually desist and wilt away.
In theory you are correct and it would be th ebest way but we are human and there are only so many times that some humans can be told that what they are saying is rubbish and that their opinion isn't "worth squat" before they retaliate.
True, it's human nature to fight for what we believe in and I appreciate my theory is easier said than done.
I am in agreement of your proposal above with the "ignore" option though. Effectively gives everyone the power to choose what they want to see, etc.
Well put DayDon (Welcome to the blog by the way). This blog as it used to be is worth fighting for and I for one intend to carry on with my occasional comments and observations.
Thank you very much ClaretBobby, much appreciated.
Spoken like a true Captain old son, I thought I was reading a piece by our old favourite Bobby Moore……brought a tear to my eye!
Seriously though, we all used to have good grown up banter on here, and it was fun.
I look forward to a return to that and not the kind of abuse that some morons hurl whilst at a game, well done SJ Chandos (see I got your name right.. LOL)
The reason I left the first time was because a particular member's infatuation and slaggig off of Carlton Cole and his/her inability to interact at a human level with other members.
As I previously said, I don't want to name names so I will leave it there.
It's a shame though as this place could be amazing again.
views change though, fella. Mine certainly has in relation to CC. Sometimes opinions just plain turn out to be wrong. mine unquestionably was. It was that very issue that drew me into a spat with a now banned poster as it goes. Me being wrong doen't legitimise his attacks though and that is the point of developments this week, to my mind.
The other point is that ths whole blogging thing is an evolution. I feel as though I have, to an extent, 'grown up'. That is to say, I would be less likley to make highly opnionated comments about an individual player these days since I have learnt from my mistakes!
Absolutely and I followed your comments on CC. However you aren't the person I am talking about. The person in question refused to accept any kind of criticizm and attacks people in public.
Although he/she doesn't comment so much on CC now, they are obsessed with their own self rightiousness and their infatuation with being right about everything West Ham related.
So give their posts a wide berth then. Their opinion is valued by lots of us. If it isn't by you then you have every right to take that stance but surely it would be better to take each of their contributions on its own merits and comment/not comment accordingly? Just a view.
Funny I always tend to agree with the same posters, whatever the subject matter.
Shame you don't contribute within the threads anymore, SJ, but I understand your stance. At least I won't get accused of sealing your formation ideas again!
Well that's just a copout
lol
only a select few, you understand……
For the record, I— like some of you enjoy Celtics posts and i hope he continues posting. It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't like Carlton Cole or thinks GZ should go. In the end it is the club that makes the decisions. Whatever will be will be. But i also get that is passion that gets us flustered over others opinions.
I tend to gloss over the bickering because i'm simply not interested. I'm a Yank that has learned a lot from this blog so keep it up. COYI!
l like Celtics posts as well,so please keep them up Celtic….
Well the 7 people that have left because of him will disagree
I'm sorry anyone felt the need to leave. Its a great blog overall.
I'm sorry too but unfortunately most of the best blaggers have gone elsewhere because of him
This is getting tedious now.
I have read in the main papers today, that Sullivan & Co said that they were well received at West Ham last weekend, any chance of running a vote on here, to see what sort of percentage of fans would like to see them take over the club! or how many would like to see us stay as we are for now, or until someone else comes along!
Interesting suggestion.
Despite the reservations of some in respect of the Gold and Sullivan ticket, I find it hard to be comfortable with our present status, in the hands of a holding bank as a so called 'assett'.
That said, assuming we can survive this season, would we be a more viable opportunity in the summer? Perhaps so.
Not sure I feel qualified to vote though!!
I am a definate NO!!!!!! reminds me too much of Alan Sugar & Tottenham! So come guy's,no sitting on the fence, a yes or a no?
I feel the same headmaster, we seem to be in a holding pattern at the moment and we need to be sold to move forward. Could be wrong tho, maybe some cash will be made available as the bank sorts out its creditors situation. Who really knows?
If anyone's canvassing opinion, I'm utterly opposed to the G&S (it feels slightly sacrilegious to use that abbreviation, but…) bid as it's been reported and, truth be told, any bid from them. £24m for 50% of the club + complete operational control is beneath insulting, as is £48m for complete ownership, with no obligation to repay our lower than commonly reported debts. I stand to be corrected by our favourite financial expert (just some troll-bait there), but it seems to me on their record at Brum, they won't actually be investing in the club, just getting it on the cheap to be flogged off at vast profit in the future.
Hell, they may even, having seen what's happened at the Swamp and at Anfield, decide to take the wee-wee and borrow the money for it against the club itself.
So that would be a very firm No from this Hammer.
meDET you can firmly count me on the NO side! I would rather see the club bought by Osama Bin Ladin than Gold & Sullivan. Maybe thats not a bad idea, would certainly make refs think twice before making the type of decisions we have had to put up with this season.
Again we have a wind up merchant and you are just feeding him ammo.
Excuse me! I am no wind up merchant.
I say it as I see it.
I haven't mention one name and I resent that accusation
Nonetheless, blogging is a democracy. CH has received the overwhelming endorsement of most of the contributors I have seen on this sight. You don't get to his 'p' value by accident. If some find his views to be forthright, overly opinionated or just plain wrong well then fine but simply to up and leave? Don't get it.
I make Daveip right as it goes. That was my last word on the subject. If people really feel that strongly then maybe they should just leave the blog, after all.
He does not deserve any recognitiion. His "p" is becasue he posts tediously long rubbish.
DevoDevo has nealy as many "P's" so does Fishy and Matt has got more.
Sorry, we know who you are talking about, its pointed and personal. don't bother replying I will not return your comments anymore.
Awwww you crying now?
This can stop here.
Iain/SJ Mr DET has just suggested a vote on here about the potential takeover of the club and whether we should stick with who we have or sell on to G/S and others depending on the outcome of todays moratorium and who is a viable new owner or whether new investment alongside CB/S is the right way forward.
Whatever the decision we need to up our game against Brum who are currently 2nd in form table as we are 12th.
I would not give the G&S bid any credibility by organising a vote on this blog. They would simply use the outcome, if positive, as "proof" that they have supporters' backing. I can see no benefit from a G&S takeover. Don't forget the Brum blog site comments!
Anyone know about any other bids coming in? ie. what happened to the intermarket situation.
isn't that the sort of comment that you say you left because of?
Yep, sure is!
Oh get real, I haven't been here before. I have followed CelticHammer here from the other blogs and forums he has been kicked off. He is a very unliked man. I have been watching his crap here and decided to tell you all what a failure he is.
He will ruin your blog
Quite obviously I am Matt Ryan and as you all know I hate Celtic Hammer and I won't rest until he is gone
All,
I have always enjoyed reading this blog but have never contributed until now.
Surely people must all grow up. Having a vendetta against someone just because you disagree with them?
We love a club together, we live in a country which upholds freedom of speach. Why should anyone have the right to try and stop someone from expressing their views.
I thought the original post was excellent and it is a shame that this thread seems to have been hijacked by people who just want to provoke conflict rather than serous debate and opinion.
Iain and SJ Chandos please keep up the ggod work and informative blogs.
Here we go again. Please, no body rise to the bait by replying to or even commenting on insulting or similar posts. If we all stick to the topic and ignore all else, the idiots will move on?
With the back biting that has been going on over the past week or so this is a really good opportunity to get the blog back on track. Apart from the thumbs up and down can't we also have another judgement button (Tw*t factor). I'm sure even the most ridiculous posters would finally give in if they realised that everyone thought they were a tw*t.
I originally posted as Roymondo but when the technicalities of the site changed I couldn't log in under that name for reasons my simple brain wouldn't let me understand. I now post under my real name so no hiding behind an alias.
I've had spells when I've stopped posting due to the girls scratching each others eyes out but there are some good people using this site and it would be a great shame to see it go down hill. Let everyone express their views. We won't ever all agree on anything but as long as they are views and not personal attacks of any sort it's OK. It can be easy to react in the wrong way to opinions that differ from your own but, in the long run, it's just best to be gracious or ignore them.
I'm sorry but I don't get all the crying and running away. Just stay and put YOUR point across.
And surely anonymity can be empowering. I love the idea that it's possible for an articulate kid or a middle aged housewife to banter and argue with a steroid enhanced bouncer who likes to throw his weight about. Not something your likely to see in the Boleyn or the Central is it?
I emailed Iain some months ago when celtichammer and scanlen brought their feud here from teamtalk cos it was taking over the comments. But since then I can't see him having done too much wrong. I don't agree with much of what he says and I don't enjoy reading about him punching Millwall fans/flying business class/donating his winnings to charity, but so what? One way or another he adds real value to the site, I hope he isn't banned and I'm sure he won't run away.
Completely agree with SJ/ID re personal abuse and feuds, but banter and disagreement is not something to be frightened of or banned for.
Anyone for a cup of tea and a slice of cake !
Oh, and I like the idea of the survey re being taken over by the fanny magnates… why not set one up properly using survey monkey (like for the player ratings). It could be the start of a regular thing.
if you dont react to them and treat the personal stuff with the contempt it deserves they wont stick around for long. they are only craving attention and a reaction and we have all been guilty to an extent of feeding thier need. this is THE premier site for West Hammers to discuss our club. I feel a bit sorry for Iain in all of this it seems the idiots are intent on spoiling what is a good site set up and maintained for true fans.
I've only been reading this blog for a few months and I often go days without reading it at all. As a result I'm not quite up to speed with all of the dynamics around some of the relationships between different posters.
What I like about WHTID, and it's a bit like my trips down to the Boleyn, is this – it is wall to wall, floor to ceiling passionate West Ham. I feel like it's home …sort of.
I enjoy reading all of the posts – even those that continue the debate beyond having made their point, it's nice to see that self belief.
I began posting because there aren't too many West Ham fans where I live and this blog gives those like me not only a voice but also a chance to hear from and share with other Hammers fans.
SJC. like the comment about not holding grudges. If there are differences of opinion, fine. We live in a democracy I think. Nobody should feel afraid about expressing themselves as long as it doesn't become personal or over aggressive. By the way, off topic, should'nt someone tell Mr Wenger how to behave at the end of a game. A great example to the kids dont you think?? I hate losing too, but I would always make a point of shaking hands with the oppo through gritted teeth even if I couldn't stand them. It's what you do isn't it? As it's Arsenal though, move on and get back to slating the Hammers! Everything crossed for the Brum match. COYI
I was recommended by a friend who was a regular on here. I enjoy the harmless banter that goes on, on the site, but it is clear that it quickley esculates into something far more personal. Every poster has a view and everyone is entitled to air that view without fear of being victimised. I find it very sad that grown men cannot simply leave well alone when a WUM clearly is on the thread. A Lawyer once told me never write a letter in anger that you don’t want your opposite to see as he will use it against you. I think that applies here to others when they are responding to some of these more antagonistic posts.
SJ well done. Living so far away, I get most of my information on the net. The first site I go to on news now is whtid. I do enjoy most of the banter. Keep up the good work