The Guardian has reported today that West Ham have delayed filing the company’s latest set of accounts until February. They have put the worst possible spin on it, suggesting it is a manoeuvre to avoid revealing problems with our income and the scale our debt prior to the opening of the January transfer window. Perhaps there are reasons other than that?
Yet at the same time, the club has just confirmed its purchase and planned development of the Rush Green site as its new training & medical facility and Reserve team ground. The Academy will remain at the club’s traditional training base at Chadwell Heath. Would a football club in such alleged serious financial difficulties be able to proceed with this development? Would not their first concern be paying the wage bill, rather than purchasing land and investing in the development of new, top class training and medical facilities? Moreover, would they also retain Chadwell Heath as a separate Academy base if they desperately needed to raise additional revenue?
Finally, earlier this year I suggested that our new new training facility should be dedicated to Ron Greenwood’s unique coaching achievements and contribution to the success of the club and England’s 1966 World Cup victory. Would it not be fitting to call it the Ron Greenwood Training Ground and erect a statute to a man who played such a giant role in our club history?
SJ Chandos.
The financial restraints cannot be too bad for the club as reported by KUMB & WHUFC we have purchased land at Rush Green for new training facilities etc to be developed in two stages the first to renovate existing sports club and install buildings for the groundsman and three training pitches. The second phase to include the erection of state -of- the- art training, rehabilitation and media complex. The Youth Academy will remain at Chadwell Heath with Reserve games being transferred to Rush Green from Bishops Stortford once completed.
If this is possible then why do the media and other sources constantly knock the club and talk of Firesales etc and our ultimate demise into administration due to the £100m we apparently have. NOT!!
If we have not got any money we would not be able to purchase land and be able to redevelop such a site. There are also sites at Beckton & Little Heath and if our financial restraints were that bad these would be possible to sell off for potential redevelopment as well.
I would agree, regarding the financial status of the club, however such an act only continues to highten the uncertainty around the club and gives the media a feild day to print what they want.
Maybe you are right, some kind tribute would be appropriate, I also the existing Chadwell Heath complex should show hommage to Carr somehow
As for naming the ground after Ron Greenwood this needs to be put forward to the club and management through appropriate channels and we hope that this could be acheived.
I have just checked the list on how much was paid out to agents and I was shocked to see we are fifth behind Spuds spending a shocking more than 5million.
How can we be making money when we have to pay out approx 5mil each year to Sheff Utd.
Makes me start to wonder about how much in debt we really are.
Sooner we publish these figures the better COL!!
There have been a few questions about the club in recent threads so based on the available info I will attempt to give some light to the situation.
Its kind of hard to break things down as so many are interlinked so this may wander off in places but hey its nothing your not used to.
The clubs accounts have been delayed and needless to say the press will claim its because they are so terribly awful that Hammers fans might just explode if they saw them. More likely the club have entered into a non disclosure process with one or more bidders and as part of that the accounts are being kept private while they are reviewed by the interested parties. The press have termed this as us exploiting some cynical loophole in order to avoid making our accounts known, the fact is that we have used a mechanism that is completely legal and available to all businesses and one that is utalised every day by any number of companies.
The club purchased a 29acre site in the summer and is progressing with the plans for a new world class training and medical facility. No figure has beed given for what this is likely to cost but based on what Villa spent we can estimate its around the £10M mark. The club have always maintained that these plans were on course and it would be funded without the need for borrowing.
We now know that this is true as not only did we recently renegotiate our current borrowings we actually reduced them by £5M as Straumur put money in. Straumur's own positiion has improved markedly, agreement was reached with creditors with regard to the rationalisation plan first introduced in August. Seeing as Straumur were able to put money in to renegotiate the debt then there is no reason they would not be able to put money in to buy players in the window.
Personally I think Upson will be sold, not because the club needs the money but becasue they are not going to let him run out his contract and leave for free. That money may well be enough to bring in the players we need but if not then I think additional money will be made available.
For those who believe this crap about players being sold to help Straumur balance its books, Straumur has around £6Billion on its books so selling the entire first team wouldnt make a damn bit of difference to their bottom line.
To them WestHam are not a financial asset but rather a trophy asset. That is what makes the club so hard to value. The original £230M value place on the club in the Icelandic courts included not only the physical assets of the club but also the goodwill value to the owners by having such a high profile asser.
Personally I believe the club is worth between £130-£150M in todays market and that it is undervalued at that. West Ham are a london club but are unique in that they have no local rivals of similar size. We have a solid fan base, we produce a lot of our own players, we own our own ground which can be easily expaned to meet our needs for the next 5 to 10years, we have some very talented and very marketable young players coming through to the first team and we have a history and reputation that puts on a level with the best clubs in Europe. Of those parties linked with the club Intermarket have shown the most intent although the lack of trasparency about those involved prevents me from jumping up and down at the prospect of them buying the club. Tony Fernandes undoubtedly has the wish but personally doesnt have the wealth. Gold/Sullivan will buy any club they can get on the cheap and have shown nothing but contempt for the club in their dealings thus far by attempting to force Straumur to sell the club on the cheap by making outlandish, stupid and embarassing statements in the gutter press. Luckily Hammers fans are a lot brighter than those two have given them credit for. As for any others there hasnt been enough to warrant them as serious contenders.
One thing is cetain, Straumur are under no pressure to sell the club and any new owner will not have "massive" debt to deal with and will not be given an instant demand by creditors. I still reckon that our debts are around the £38M mark which is something I have said for some time.
Obviously I dont expect people to believe that figure simply because I said so but remember I have been saying that Everton are running a debt defecit of £8M a year, well they have just announced a loss of just under £7M so when you factor in the drop in the cost of doing business Id say I was pretty much spot on! Now I'm not one to toot my own horn but in this case………toot toot, toot toot!
Great post Celtic
glad someone understands what's going on. Maybe you could also shed some light on the report in tonight's Standard that suggests we paid over £5million in agents fees during the summer. As half our acquisitions were loans or swop arrangements and our outlay of fees modest, it seems a large sum for a club strapped for cash. Am I being unfair in worrying about Nani?
CH – a couple of moot points;
I'm not entirely sure that the ground CAN be expanded for future use – we could redeveloped the East and fill in the corners but that would only give us a max capacity of around 40-42,000 and the grounds of the future and our nearest rivals will all be 50-60,000 seaters. Furhtermore any major development of UP will only be allowed if we help finance development in the local underground network.
Secondly, I love my club more than most but we aint one of the best in Europen in terms of history and reputation. No Mexican football fan asked to name 5 European teams ever said," Si Senor, Manchester United, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and West Ham."!!!!! Get a sense of perspective please……..
Other than that i thought it was a good post!
Jolly, can you expand on your line about financing the development of the local underground network.
Have never read that before although I am aware that the police are no longer staffing the station on match days (except for the occasional Millwall visit of course).
Jolly one of the first things BG did when he took over was to bring in a team of stadium engineers and ask them to review the option of redeveloping the existing ground or moving to the old parcel force site by the station. Atherden Fuller the company who redesigned old trafford said that the current ground could be expanded to reach around 46,000. The entire cost of development was put at around £40M to include all necessary work on external infrastrucutre and it was felt it could be accomodated without the need for extensive outside borrowing.
As for our reputation, well mate I have seen quite a bit of this world and everywhere I go when I mention WestHam people know the club. We are known the world over as The Academy of Football, if you dont believe me look at some of the players we brought in recently who turned down the chance to stay or move to more successful clubs to come to us. Frank Nouble, leaves chelski turns down arsenal to join WestHam. Sergio Sanchez leaves Barca to come to WestHam, Fillip Modeleski turns down offers from 2 Bundesliege teams to join WestHam to name but a few.
Lofty under new planning laws any development tha requires the upgrading of local public infrastructure must be funded at least in part by the developers and often in full.
Jolly, I accept your points taken we have enough ground capacity to increase to around 40-45000max but not much more than that for future development beyond that apart from moving to another location and redevelop UP to pay for it.
with the european factor I accept that beyond the highlight of the Cup WCup in the 60's our presence has been non existent. However if we can look forward and not back the future is bright -The Future is Claret& Blue
But what legislation dictates that we have to pay for an underground upgrade because we add another 5000 to our crowd capacity?
I can see how it would work for a new-build but not a re-fit.
To be honest mate I dont know the exact amount we would be expected to contribute but given this was brought in by lefty looney Ken Livingston its hardly surprising that it doesnt make sense!
CH;
Whilst I appeciate it is difficult to reserch all the available material, you have made a couple of statements that are not correct. Firstly, Straumur have not yet come to an agreement with all of their creditors as yet in regards to their rationalisation plans – they are still not clear on how much they owe and to whom and some of the creditors are contesting each others claims – hence the reason they are applying for an extension to their monitorium process this (or next) week, to allow them time to sort these claims out via the courts if needs be.
Regarding the £5 million they gave us, the rules had to be massaged considerably to get this through as the current situation prevents them loaning out money, so it had to be done as a 'gift'.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continue in next comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
There is another Creditors meeting on 8th Dec in which they hope to iron out the final details. This has been helped by the realisation of some assets to the tune of 250 Million Euros recently which has enabled them to cover 95% of their secured creditors loans – this was totaly unexpected and has, as you mentioned, puts them in a much more secure position. As a club, we do not have to sell players to balance the books and it has been made clear over the last year at least, only players requesting a transfer would be considered to be allowed to leave. Straumurs improved position also now discounts any 'stories' we have to sell players as they want the money – this is not and never was the case, why would they sell the best players and devalue the club? We are worth considerably more to them as a prem team than a championship one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continue in next comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Continued from last comment<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The Value put on the club (Unrealistic if you ask me) at one point by Straumur (which included redevelopment potential of UP an moving to the new Olympic Stadium) was more than twice the value you mentioned – then someone must have had a dose of realism to bring it down a bit to what you have stated.
At the end of the day, the value of the club is what a potential buyer is willing to pay, no matter what the paper value – this is something that the banking industry failed to take into account and why the recession. On paper their assets were worth Billions, but in the real world they were worth zilch. So they may want £130Mil (which I believe what the price has been all along) but might not attract a buyer at that price. Straumur was using their valuation to offset their debts, so now things have improved for them, they may be willing to accept a lower bid – they do not really want a football club as an asset as the traditional management model they use does not fit, which is why they are leaving it up to Duxbury and Co.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Final bit<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Regarding the accounts, we also have yet to reach agreement with Curb's on his compensation claim – as that cannot be quantified as yet and will have a direct bearing on the accounts, it is the perfect excuse (as well as the non-disclosure agreement) to delay in publishing them.
An easy solution to this is to re-enstate the two NR platforms at UP. I mean how difficult would it be to operate a couple of shuttle services on match days out to Barking and into London? If they stopped at most of the other NR stations along the way I am sure a lot of people would use them. Granted it may cause a few problems with the regular services on those days but there must be way to work it out.
Then all you would need to do is increase the size of the ticket hall – no new plant would be needed as tickets/oyster would be as they are on the underground.
Problem with putting the British Rail back to UP is that there is no signalling there and it would have to built. Very very costly.
Onme_edson it was BG not Straumur who put the value on the club in the first place but it has been accepted by the courts and creditors. I have simplified as much as possible as the minutiae of corporate finance tend to put people to sleep.
Straumur presented its creditors with the rationalisation plan in August, and while it hasnt been formally passed yet, it will be, the fact that Straumur invested money in the club (however it was termed) is enough to prove that. Under Icelandic law any company in an administration/nationalisation process can not enter into any buisness agreement or put money into any venture without the approval of all parties and with court approval. Part of the rationalisation plan was to extend its moratorium in order to allow for the conversion of creditors debts into shares.
I dont believe that curbs settlement will be that substatial or anywhere near what the red tops are quoating and if the award is high the club will look to appeal which would extend the timing of any payout well beyond the current set of accounts.
Personally I think the money grabbing scumbag doesnt deserve the steam off a cup of tea!
CELTIC, LOVE YOUR POST,l think l speak for most of the people on this site ,thanks for putting so much of your time in to keeping us all informed.
happy to help!
Great post Celtic.
For those interested, here is some detail about the proposed redevelopment of the East Stand and our responsibilities under that proposal.
Note: links open a PDF document
http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/planning_decisions…
http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/planning_decisions…
The 20 odd acre site that west ham have suppose to have bought, the only place l can think of in Rush Green is the old May & Baker Site, which spreads from Dagenham across to Rush Green, it does have a sports facility with it, so l am wondering if this is the place, does any one know any different?
Why would anyone mark this down? Its a simple question! Clickin your thumbs up out of principle!
Virginian: Thanks for that. A million quid to tart up Upton Park station. Wow, they must have spent at least 300 quid on the place over the past 20 years. Can't wait to see the plans should it get the green light.
Club site has pics and full details.
Here's the link
http://www.whufc.com/articles/step-forward-for-ru…
Club site has pics and full details.
http://www.whufc.com/articles/step-forward-for-ru…
Yes, it would be great to have a Ron Greenwood Centre (or whatever)
mr DET, This is the 29acre site formally Ford Sports & Social club site
If you read the article on the WHUFC site & if this is the same as May &Baker site then you are right.
okay if we call the new place the "Ron Greenwood Training Ground", how about renaming chadwell heath the "Tony Carr Academy of West Ham Football"?
I read the Guardian's rubbish article this morning & have had the hump all day – why? because its a another cheap shot at West Ham – Any one that knows anything about publishing accounts knows that nearly every company in the world leaves it too the last minute to file their accounts (if not file them late) its a poor article by I guess a poor wag! Which leads me onto the next article I found this morning on News Now claiming that Cole could be out for up to four months in the Sun written by a Spurs Fan! Pat you should be reporting on how much Crapnapp has paid is son the agent & how much he has had in kick backs – Now thats a real story!
ClaretBobby what a great idea. I am so looking forward to his testimonial game. An unassuming man who has accomplished such a lot over the years.
BG may well have done, but he made it clear that this was a value on paper only. Just before Straumur took control there was and article on one of the more reputable European website in which BG stated this and actually put the sale price at £75.9 Million (providing the buyer took on the club debts of around £45mil at the time). It was widely reported that one of the reasons they did the asset grab was in fact to stop him selling off the assets for less than Straumur thought they were worth. Regarding the rationalisation plan – It was only accepted in principle in August, Straumur was basically told to go away and come back in six months with an improved package or face admin, it looks like they have managed to markedly improve the package. I would still like a new owner sooner rather than later though.
Great Post Celtic. You mentioned Everton and it is interesting to know that on the latest The Game podcast Everton and Liverpool are thought to be spiraling into a bigger and bigger financial hole of which there is no escape. Never hear about that do we?
Financially it will turn good for us—my biggest concern is avoiding a relegation battle. and the thought of mid table finish.
If they are asking for £1Mil from us as a contribution for improvements to the station I wonder how much they are putting up? I'd have though that although costley, installing signalling would be the cheaper option. If you are going the way of putting in a couple of new platforms and tracks for the LUL side, that would be far more expensive.
Thanks for posting that. Some years ago us season ticket holders used to get a free magazine from the club. As I recall it stated UP tube station would be upgraded as part of West Stand development but it never happened. Does seem odd the club have to contribute when more fans means more revenue for London Transport.
Wocha Westside – haven't seen you around for a while, are they keeping you busy over there in Shilo?
Celtic – thanks for your informative posts. Can I ask something off topic which has bothered me for a while. As I understand it auditors refused to signoff accounts last year unless we paid off Sheff Utd so we agreed to give them some huge amount over next five years. I thought last ruling on Tevez affair was that we were not liable (or did I misunderstand that?). My point is did we commit to pay Sheff U when we didn't need to? If so can we stop payment or sue auditors for making us shell out?
Stratford its something that has bothered me a lot since it happened. Obviously I was not privy to the meetings with the auditors but it seemed very much to me that they refused to sign off the accounts with such a potentially massive unkown liability hanging over the club and they could not be convinced that we would eventually win the case and the claim would be nothing. That refusal posed the only realy threat of administration the club has ever faced as if we had not satisfied the auditors then we would have gone into administration.
Likewise I dont know the exact wording of the deal with the blunts, but I do know a couple of things, firstly they "massaged" their accounts to make it look like the lost money the year they were relegated when in fact they made a £4M profit, this fact came to light when BG appointed a team of forensic accountants to go over their books. It was after this that the blunts stopped sabre rattling and started making peacful overtures. Secondly the compensation figure was never decided in a court of law which greatly limits the right of appeal so legal redress is tricky, the blunts are hardly likely to agree to any wording which makes it easy for us to rip up the agreement afterwards.
We could have a legal recourse against the auditors but again its difficult as they were following best practice and obeying the letter of the law and if they had signed off without an agreement they were letting themselves open legal action. Likewise we could take action against Lord Griffiths but he's likely to be senile (some would say he already is) or dead before that gets to court. We could even have a case against the premier league for failing to protect us when we adhered to their rulings and their punishment. Remember the blunts case was on what happened after the £5M fine. Although I cant see anyone being willing to open that can of worms.
The truth is mate its a mess, if it were me I would rip up any agreement with the blunts then launch defamation cases against pretty much everyone involved and rope in a few newspapers while I was at it. I have always been a strong supporter of Dux but since sept I think he has made critical errors in handling the clubs legal issues and protecting it from constant media sniping,
I just can not see the club paying out on the full agreement with the blunts given the most recent ruling and I imagine that they are exploring what legal avenues are open to them, I only hope the get better advise than they have previously. Either that or the amount of compensation is drastically below what we have been quoted. I have said before that if the club was clever they could offset the cost against tax (providing we were making a profit) and ultimately end up paying nothing in a real sense.
Sorry I cant give you a definative answer but none presents itself when they entire decision/compensation defied logic in the first place
I have not seen the article regarding BGs valuation so cant comment on it. I would imagine that BG meant the club for £75M plus the debts which were over £80M at the time as the holding company had invested that into the club through its shares structure and at the time that holding company was still in existence and stilled owned by BG. Straumur didnt "do an asset grab" as you put it. Prior to its nationalisation Straumur was majoriitarily owned by BG and his son Thor and they were unlikely to asset grab from themselves. Under the terms of the nationalisation (which was politically and not financially motivated) Straumur called in all its loans and in the case of those made to BG that meant they along with Straumurs own creditors took control of the holding company that held WestHam and therefor the club.
Straumur was not told to go anywhere by the creditors. I read the proposal presentation and the minutes of the meeting and the proposal was solid and well recieved and all niceties aside they had sod all choice but to accept it or they would lose 90% of their money at least. If they had chosen to get into a pissing match with the board they only thing they had as a weapon was the threat of a firesale where the only thing they could have burned was thier own cash!
Even if no agreement was reached they couldnt be forced into administration as they had been nationalised and are protected by Icelandic law from such an eventuallity. As I said the fact they have put £5M into the club shows they are moving forward under this plan.
CH, Whilst I do not doubt you have seen the proposal and minutes and lots of other info on the subject and formulated you opinions base on those, do not think that some of us have also researched this. In the 6th August presentation it clearly states: “The only realistic options to exit the Moratorium are for Straumur to agree a Composition with the Composition Creditors or for Straumur to be placed into Bankruptcy proceedings. Any such bankruptcy proceedings will be controlled by a trustee appointed by the Court.” That last sentence means administration, so why would they mention it if it could not happen? And on 24/08/09: “Following feedback from creditors, we have amended our plans…… financial projections presented to the Informal Meeting of Creditors held on 6 August, 2009…. The impact is to increase estimated recoveries……", that tells me that the creditors did ask for a re-evaluation. I won't get into an extended debate about this with you as we are never going to agree on some things so let’s just accept that we have both drawn similar conclusions on the evidence present, although we may have interpreted that evidence differently.
Thanks – you have really just amplified my own thinking. Why (if indeed he did) Dux as a lawyer agreed to fork out a kings ransom is beyond me. I guess next accounts will show eaxact amount we are committed to
Fords site is not M&B. Played at both and looking forward to watching the ressies over there.
Yeah what I wouldnt give for a day in the WestHam boardroom mate!
The Spuds just got a footballing lesson from Manu I guess 1-2 is a solid bet for them to beat us ,Dux will be on large as he is a Manc but what would it be like if we had the best directors ,owner and manager in the world,wishful thinking after BG,Terry Brown and all the spivs before.Terry Vegtables was the studio guest for the game tonight is he Rolf Harris in disguise ?LOL!
Claret, Get an email off to Duxbury now so he can make arrangements!LOL!
Hi Onme, yes been busy settlin in over here, these plains take a lot of ridin
.
I still shout just as loudly though when we play!! (one of the benefits of over here so far seems to be a much better quality stream from Iraqi Goals!! lol!!)
Totally pff topic, akin to the Viz charavyer Roger irrelevant, anyone else a tad surprised if I tell you that, on the form guide as evidenced over the last 6 games we have the 8th best record in the EPL?
Don't believe me? Click on this:
http://www.premierleague.com/page/FormGuide
Lies, damn lies, statistics and form guides!
The interest in West Ham will get stronger,Olympics in a couple of years real estate in East London will skyrocket and astute buyers would know what a fantastic location East London has to offer and sooner rather than later our value as a club will be even higher than stramur,s current value,come on Sheik Mohammed it is never to late!
Off topic again, how thrilled am I not at having to contemplate forking out £50 in addition to the grand I've already shelled out for season tickets, for me and the boy to see a 3rd round cup tie.
Last year I thin we got in for around a score at the same stage. Don't care if it is Arsenal. It's still only the third round and this price may well put me off. Get the feeling they need every penny??
The problem with the OS as when it came up before in 2006 when BG first made enquiries about moving to a new location this would mean little or no atmosphere as UP now has and further away from the pitch. If UP is not redeveloped to approx 40/5 thousand as has previously been suggested then moving to the old Royal Mail/parcel force site behind the station is another suggestion. The OS site was earmarked for conversion after 2012 to a 25000 seater if not a football stadium and offered to either Spurs or WH but rejected as we now know Spurs have made alternative plans next to WHL and I feel that WH future is still around the UParea despite the redevelopment costs. The OS will become a white elephant the same as the Millenium Dome was for many years before the O2Arena as is now.