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West Ham v Everton Player Performance Results
I know this is off topic but this story pretty much confirms what the speculation about Deano has been suggesting http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/nov/09/de… .
Completely gutted. For him and for us.
Oi, how did you get up here? I was first! lol
Not too sure I would have given Parker top! But definitely top 3! Not really too sure how Upson got that many either! I thought he was awful! I would have made Diamanti my top!
Nice new size of the graph though Iain, much easier to read! Thanks
No surprise about who gets the man of the match. Parker was simply streets ahead and I would have thought he would have gotten and even higher score. Yet again our captain trails in the middle of the pack.
I know Matt mentioned giving Cole the armband on the previous post but I can only put that down to him having a few large glasses of wine with dinner. Cole has improved beyond belief but he is not nor will he ever be a captain, let him get on with his job of leading the line and scoring the goals without overburdening him.
Parker is the only option in my opinion and I would look at appointing Behrami or even Collison as vice captain.
I doubt we will get the 12-15M touted for Upson in the summer but I would take someones arm for 8 to 10M in January.
I know everyone (myself included) has been saying that Diamanti must start and I have been wondering why he hasnt. I know people thought that he wasnt fit enough yet for 90mins in the Premier League but I dont think thats the case. I cant believe for a minute that Zola is blind to the difference he makes to the team when he plays. I know people have said that he starts from the bench to bring him on so he can change the game but if the game is that good when he is on why ask him to change it with 30mins when you can ask him to win it from the start.
I think Zola is trying to get the rest of the team to get used to playing with him. Diamanti is simply barely controlled chaos, not only do defenders not know what to do with him but his own team arent too sure either. I think Zola will build a team around him but only when the team are able to read him, to know where they need to be to make the most of his incredible passing ability.
When he came on yesterday it was Hines and Stan who reacted quickest and benefited most from his presence, its not surprising as young players will always adapt quicker. Once everyone else gets on his wavelenght and we accomodate his free role in the formation then he will start pulling the strings and we will start climbing the table.
I know people say that tables dont lie but they dont tell the whole story either. Unlike almost every other team in the bottom half we have not taken a tonking this season, our goal differnce is amongst the best of the bottom 12 teams and we are only 6points away from the top 10 so lets not get overly distraught.
top post CH
Sorry Celtic but Parker just isn't on the pitch enough and as a midfielder, rather than a defender, that just isn't good enough! There is no point having a captain sitting in the showers!
Col ewould do a great job! You have kept your hatred of Cole no secret and that's fine, that's your opinion!
So tell me, as Parker isn't suitable, WHO would you give it to? NOBLE??? GREEN??? BEHRAMI????
If you were at the game yesterday I can't believe you didn't think Parker was man of the match (again). CH doesn't hate Cole but just thinks he is not captain material which I would agree with. It takes a certain kind of person to be captain and I am sure Cole would not profess to have those qualities anymore than Parker would profess to have his in leading the line.
Why is it that just because I don't agree with YOU, then it's wrong???? As far as I'm concerned, when Diamanto came on, he took that title from Parker!
As far as Celtic and Cole is concerned, I'm sure he's big enough and ugly enough to answer for himself!
I don't think Parker is captain material at the moment! Simple! You say it takes a certain kind of person to lead the line, yes it does and right now it is NOT Parker! Maybe it isn't Cole, but there is NO ONE I would give it to over Cole!
If Parker could calm down and stop making silly mistakes, then I'd happily give him the arm band!
But I'll tell you one thing for sure, it's NOT Upson!
always enjoy your posts, matt but agree with CH and StratfordPeter on this one.
for what it's worth mate, I think that when you put things in caps, it just reads a bit overly assertively
Oh blimey mate, no problem that you agree with Celtic and Stratford at all! That's what this place is about! In fact its the not agreeing that makes it interesting
It would be such a boring site if everyone agreed on everything
As far as the caps are concerned, I can't work out teh html for the italics, so I use it emphasize a word
Matt the hallmark of Carlton Cole's career is a certain mental fragility, that is hardly the type of quality that captains are made of. His improvement is based heavily on his confidence being built up by the club, the coaches and the manager, you can not have a captain whose form is so closely linked to confidence, even if they are having a bad game they still have to be able to lead a team
Ok mate, that point taken, take Cole and Parker out of the equasion, who WOULD you give it to?
I have said Cole (and I did say that I knew no one owuld agree with me) because I don't think Parker is at the right time in his career to receive the arm band and I can't think of any player I would give it to over Cole.
Behrami or Collison for me, or if Noble regains his form then I would give it to him.
Noble????? If I've had a couple of glasses of wine with dinner, you've had a few bottles mate! lol
Collison has NO more credit than Cole! There is nothing Collison can offer that Cole can't! In fact the mere fact that Cole, gets a start every game gives him the upper hand!
And Behrami, I won't even commect on him because he won't be with us next summer!
Collisons performance against Milwall in the wake of his fathers tragic death showed he has the mental strength to lead a team and be a superb captain. Not only had he just suffered a devastating personal loss but he played in the the most intimidating atmosphere imaginable. Despite all of this he was a leader on the night and a clam influence on the players around him.
Sounds like a captain to me !
As for Noble he captained his country to an international final in the summer.
And Behrami is due to sign a new deal at the club in the coming weeks in order to put transfer rumours to bed as he wants to stay at the club.
Collison wasn't the only player calming things down at the Millwall game, Hines and others were too but Collison got singled out because of what happened to his dad. I am not doubting his strength, but just don't think he oculd offer anything that Cole can't! And he doesn't start enough games to warrant the arm band.
Noble di dcaptain the U21's correct! But there wasn't really anyone in that team that could have done any better than him! He has been woeful (in general, apart form a few exceptions) for us lately and does not deserve the captaincy! I'm sorry, I will listen to arguments on Collison and Parker, but you will not convince me on any level that Noble is up to being captain!
Behrami will not sign ANY contract until after the world cup! His words, not mine! Also, I doubt we will offer him anythng just yet! I have the feeling Zola will concider trding him in, possibly with Juve! And in any case, I would pick Cole over him any day of the week!
Listen, I am open to listen to anything you have to say and these are merely my opinions! I would LOVE Parker to get to the level to be given the arm band but don't think he's there yet.
The sad fact is, we will probably be lumbered with Upson until the summer and he will still be captain come Feb! Not what I want but it's the way it will probably be! His form has been dismal lately and I seriously doubt even Redknapp will want him now, not at a decent price anyway! There will be lots of £4-5Million offers for him, no doubt but he's not going anywhere at that price!
So Matt you are picking Cole based on 12 months of improved play over someone like Parker who has been a consistant high level performer his entire career.
Also I said IF Noble regains his form!
Probably best to leave it there mate, I may have not always been a fan of Cole but I dont think even his biggest supporters on this page would suggest him as captain!
At this particular momennt in time, yes old chap, I would happily pick Cole over Parker!If and when Parker can calm down a bit and stay on the pitch for more than 50 mis a game, I would happily change that view
Ha! Interesting stuff.
Parker was streets ahead on Sunday and I for one, can't see how he didn't merit a 9 – he was that good. Diamanti got an 8 from me Matt.
Of course Parker should be our first choice, but as Matt says he does have resting periods due to the fact that he still sees football as a contact sport, even if the refs don't!
My 2nd choice captain would be Collison. mature beyond his years and a definite starter. He is also someone that we have to keep hold off. Noble would be a possibility too, if he could just regain some of his previous form.
When you think about it, we don't have many choices in the side. Perhaps Zola needs to address this in the window and get some "leaders" in rather than more fancy foreign forwards.
The goals will look after themselves once we tighten up at the back.
Hi Devo mate!
This is pretty much what I am getting at!
In my opinion, Upson isn't up to the job and even though when he Parker calms down he will be a great captain, he just isn't in that zone right now!
Personally, my second choice would be Cole over Collison! jack is a great young lad, but that's what he is, a YOUNG lad. He will also go on to be a great captain, I would think! But given the things that have happened in his personal life and the fact that he has recently stated that he is still finding it very hard, I think right now, giving him the arm band would affect his playing and I'd much rather he gave 90% to playing than 60% to playing with 30% to being a captain.
That leaves me with Cole! he can command games, has what it takes to be a dominant captain, is a big man and could do a better job than upson!
That said mate, if Parker was a on the pitch more and levelled his head out a pit, he would definitely be my first choice
Matt
Totally agree with everything CH said. Parker is a leader by example and was my choice for captain (as I know he was for most on this website) at start of season and I am now even more certain that would have been right decision.
In the lower Bobby Moore those around me refer to Diamanti as our 'luxury player' but I think he has now become a necessity. Yes, he does showboat but he is not afraid to have a go at goal and, at the risk of stating the obvious, if you don't shoot you won't score. Why he doesn't start every game is beyond me.
I was listening to Stan Collymore on Talksport earlier tonight and he made the point that teams are at their most dangerous when they get the ball in from wide. We are so lacking width at the moment – its all played through the middle. I thought we looked far better yesterday when Junior came on as he provided that extra dimension.
You agree with Celtic??? NEVER!
You agree with EVERYTHING he says! You sure you're not him???? lol
Ever think thats maybe because I make a lot of sense!
Never crossed my mind mate!
We will never know how good Deano would have been good luck mate.
Parker is the only person that is cajoling and encouraging so he deserves the leaders armband Upson is going through a tough patch as is Green but who do we have to replace either.Zola gave us a load of crap when he was installed in the hot seat about downsizing the squad well mate you were under orders from the ownwers to ‘spin us that one cos they have limited funds take a bow Nigel Quashie 20 grand a week down the toilet’leave us short on quality.
Zavon Hines at least carved out some openings against Everton but overall we were not good enough
Diamanti's best position is in the hole behind 2 strikers but you loose width,unless you just play 1 holding midfielder an really go for it with 2 wingers as well,can't see zola doing that its far to gun ho.
I still dont think Zola knows his best team or formation,next I guess he'll try this.
Cole
Diamanti
Stanislas Parker Behrami Collison
I'd go with that Chris. I think Stan brings a lot to the team and seems to have a very strong understanding with Diamantio already. I also think the guys confidence marks him out as different from a lot of players his age. I think he has been unlucky to be on the bench so much this season.
I also think Behrami is excellent when played centrally!
Bolton are in trouble,I hope zola thinks about a cheeky bid for k davis at christmas,after we ditch Jimenez.
Dyers back running………………………………….the tap.
No sorry he's injured his thumb.
I see Parker has given an interview talking about his confidence in the teams ability to move up the table and away from the drop zone.
Its a good interview, one might even say its the kind of think you would expect from a captain. As for Parker staying on the pitch for 50mins he has been sent off once this season and that was a terrible decision by the ref and he won Hammer of the Year last year.
Yes and with the injuries and the suspentions, the time isn't right for him! 5 Yellows and 1 Red in 10 games isn't good enough for a midfielder with an arm band!
I don't care what he did last year (because as it happens, I would have given it to him last year) So far this year for me, although he has shown the skill and a dedication to be captain, he hasn't shown the temperament!
No doubt you will come back with yet the same argument again, this is JUST MY view! The fact that you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong! Or make yours wrong! Or right!
Yuo are the one that wanted to leave this!
Lets just agree to disagree shall we!
As I said, CH, how he never merited a 9 I'll never know? He has to be first choice captain – I would have Collsion and Noble as back ups, but I do think Zola needs to get some leaders in in January.
Parker was immense on Sunday, bossed the circle, ran the show, so much so that he got maximum bonus points from the FFL pundits as the best player.
He is the obvious choice for skipper I'd have thought.
Hines was outstanding against Villa, woudl you give it to him?
Being outstanding in a game here and there (and please dont say Parker is outstanding every game, because he simply isn't) doesnt warrant the issue of an arm band! Our leader needs to lead by example and be on the pitch long enough to do so.
I would give it to lucash with a big wedge of dough and me tail firmly between my legs,
Bloody hell, that galls me to type that!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wasn't his biggest fan as captain but right now, looking back and looking at the lack of choice we have now, I'd reinstate him too mate!
I've had enormous problems trying to activate comments so am back with a new name – my real one! I was previously Roymondo.
The captaincy debate is an interesting one. I wouldn't give it to Carlton for the simple reason that he is a striker and I always think the best positions for skipper are those facing the play. That's why a central midfielder or defender is probably best. So it's Parker for me.
I agree that a captain should be facing play but you have to admit, a cptain can't see much from teh showers!
lol
My ONLY issue with Scotty is his temperament! I have also concidered a captains best position and the only argument I could come up with is that Carlton is often chasing back and is always all over the field!
If he was starting regularly, I think Diamanti would make a good skipper…….Discuss!
Blimey Bobby! He wouldn't be that high up on my list at the moment But the main reason for that is because I haven't seen enough of him!
Oh and the fact that he's a crazy as a bag of hedgehogs!
lol
Maybe we need a bit of crazy to wake the team up sometimes, and i don't think he'll be afraid to let them know what he thinks. As good as any other suggestion i've heard so far.
Matt's point about Parker potentially being a captain absent is well made but I wonder that if he were given the armband he might quickly develop a sense of responsibility and stop getting booked for stupid reasons.
That would be nice! I agree!
I know it's only paper talk but Manure are being linked with Chamakh now! Hmmmm!
I see Neil "Colin" Warnock is having a bitch at West Ham because he "heard" that we wanted to recall Sears due to our striker injuries!
He has said "They can't recall him even if they wanted to, he's staying put, at least til January" – what a tosser!
I'm sure Zola had no intention of recalling Sears, he's hardly set palace alight (no pun intended) has he!
And anyway, I thought there was some regulation hidden in the depths of the FA's rule book that states a team can recall players at any time of the season in case of emergency??
I could be wrong! Wouldn't be the first time! lol
Matt
Matt, recalling Sears would not be the answer he might just as well stay at Palace.
We just have to remain positive however difficult that may be and as PDC say on the official site Stay close to the team.
If we win the next 2 games that is 16points and top half of table.
IF is a big word at present to the team club & all of us.!Lol!!
After a very frustrating w/end trying to post comments without luck same as Raymondo was
FISHY IS BACK
& Watch this Space.!Lol!
AS for club Captain I say give it to Parker as Upson (But we are not the managers Zola is) will not be with us come the January window we need the extra money to line Curbishlys pockets and also some more to pay for the Millwall fiasco. Unfortunately AFCWimbledon could not put them out of the FA Cup last night. So there is always round 3 to get our own back. Haha!!
It is always interesting to read the views of the two camps who post here, namely those who manage to get to Upton Upton for matches and those who watch on tv and online.
All views are valid so I am not sitting in judgement of either party. However, it would be interesting if people mentioned where they watched the match.
TV coverage has often distorted my perception of who played well and who didn't.
I managed to get to Sunday's game and thought Parker was immense. I am a massive fan of Behrami but was disappointed with his contribution against Everton. So I was taken back by him being rated as our fourth best player.
In contrast, I thought Franco was excellent.
I believe him to be the most intelligent player we have and someone who will serve both Hines and Cole well in the coming months. Sadly he won't bag us bundles of goals, but still a great asset to the team.
On the other topic of the day: Cole or Parker as captain? I'm afraid Cole falls into the category of someone who should NEVER be captain.
All the traits that make him the striker that he is are the same reason he would never be considered a leader.
Namely: He is selfish, self-centred, lacks confidence, insular and a prima donna. Believe me I am not being critical of the man, it is my assessment of his character which I do not believe is conducive with being a captain.
So you think Parker? Or is there someone else more vocal or more consistent?
I admit to only being able to watch on tv/internet so can't see how players act off the ball.
I think Parker ticks most of the boxes, although I agree with Matt that his absences through injury and suspension count against him. Someone else posted that maybe the captaincy might calm him a little which is probably a good call.
I think he is the natural leader on the pitch anyway, so he gets my vote. Giving Upson the captaincy was probably a bolt-on to his contract anyway.
Hello Lofty, I admit, work does prevent me from attending some games, but get to every game I can
Anyway…….I think a lot of people are taking my choice of Cole way too far! I have never actually said he should be captain end of…….! lol!
What I have said is that I DO agree with Parker but just not right now, not until ha calms it a bit! If being given teh arm band does that job, then great! If not, we would be left leaderless while he is on the bench or in the shower!
As far as Cole is concerned, what I have actually said is that with Parker out of the frame, Cole would be my first choice over the likes of Noble and Behrami etc…
And, have to say mate, I don't agree that Cole is lacking confidence at all mate!
Matt
Matt,
I know you weren't campaigning for Cole, but thought it was an interesting debate notheless.
I'lll have to stick with my assessment of Cole's confidence, though.
I probably don't mean confidence as in the traditional footballing sense, more a lack of true conviction in his own abilities and worth as a person.
His lack of eye contact and the way he carries himself send out all the signals of someone lacking security in his own worth. I know these these things are not possible, but oh to be able to implant some of Drogba's DNA into CC.
He has that killer instinct along with a drive, passion and confidence that play no part in Cole's make up. I read that Zola and Clarke had spent an awful lot of time trying to convince Cole that he is a good footballer and can go all the way. To me, this is a work in progress.
Is there anyone else who even comes close? If Parker misses a lot of games who could step in as vice captain? Is Behrami influential enough?
Looking again at the graph at the top, is anybody else consistantly first-team enough to rival Parker?
I agree with you on Upson it was obviously what he demanded to stay.
Claret,
I reckon Behrami could be a great captain. I see so much of the Billy Bonds style about his play that I don't find it too difficult to imagine him wearing the arm band. Probably next cab off the rank after Parker.
Agree completely Lofty. I think its great that he is in talks about a new contract. It should put off clubs from sniffing about him in January. I like his all action style and he is probably the fittest player in the league.
Lofty – I am usually watching online or live TV and rarely go nowadays. I won't even watch games in pubs anymore, because of the idiots that tend to frequent these places used to drive me mad. I think I now watch the game with a more objective view. When I attended games regularly late 70's to 90's, I would get too emotionally involved in the games to give a really reasoned opinion, especially as it was standing room only!
BTW – I agree with your summary of the game 100%!
Devo…I know what you mean about getting too emotionally involved. I can't count the times when someone has asked me how an opposition player performed and I have to admit I havn't got a clue.
I get so wrapped up with out lot it is sometimes difficult to be objective. Not sure if it is good for the old ticker, but there's no going back now.
The atmosphere in the stadium now isn't a patch on the old standing days, though. The ground was like a bloody library for huge chunks of Sunday's game, especially when Everton stuck one in.
It's a shame we can't re-create the atmosphere of the Millwall match (without the pitch invasion). That was the liveliest night I can remember for a long time.
It would help if we could close the gap between the pitch and the front row of the East Stand. The old Chicken Run atmosphere, with the fans screaming down the players' necks, was great.
Ah memories…sound like a right old git. Sorry.
I report as I see from my perch in the BMU.
I've noticed over the years that I'm a bit flakey at what happens up the other end til i see it again but in front of the Bobby Moore, I live it.
I'm also not finding it any easier as I get older. In every game I've had to bite my fists with the tension although those moments of ecstasy like when Hines poked in the winner are a very rare thing in life these days and they make it worthwhile.
Why the bloody hell does zola see Diamanti as an Impact player same as hines,why wait till you are behind before playing your best hand,I don't know what to think of this fella I really don't.
how you doin every1, just came back from college, heard the news on Dean Ashton, thats now another blow on us because we are now going to lose another striker, blimey, the Irons season is getting bloody better isnt it? just cant believe it but i dont care, im a still proud west ham and will continue to give support…
I'm a bit shocked at some of the scores – Diamanti the 2nd best player on the pitch? Not even close – 1 good pass does not make amend the 5 or 6 40yd hoofs at goal!
Spector's mark is also woefuly unfair – I'm no big fan of Specs and have been often quick to criticise but that was his best game this season and that he scored less than Behrami and Franco is laughable.
Too many people are marking with grudges, agendas or claret-tinted glasses.
On th captaincy front – not even a dificult conversation. Should be and MUST be Scott Parker, conversation over.
Jolly that's a bit unfair he played at least 3 or 4 good balls and had few shots,ok they were a bit unrealistic efforts but least he knows where the goal is,agree on spector had he's best game ,but he has a problem with consistency like alot of our players.
Conversation is NEVER over!
Captain with out a doubt should be Parker.
On to the next Game 4-4-2 Sod Jimminez we should put our best 11 players on the pitch even if we have to make some changes. IF all fit then I would as I have said before play Berahmi RB with a more attacking player in front of him Collison in the middle Parker and Noble with Diamanti on the left. Up front Cole and Hines I think Hines desreves a run and with Cole along side him and diamanti able to put a few good balls through would in time become a real top partnership 20+ goals a season. Hines is without doubt going to be a top player but needs to be given time and games just like cole was. At the back DeCosta has in my book made the 2nd CB position his along side Upson Illunga at LB but he's not the player he was last season. If we are going to spend any money in Jan then I think improving the defence will be money better spent.
I'm bored with this captain talk now! Cos lets face it, nothing is going to happen until January at the earliest! And even then, Zola will probably appoint Quasie! lol!
So…….lets talk about…….who will partner Upson now that Glen Johnson has pulled out of the England game? Tere is talk about maybe Milner or SWP dropping back! I hope not!
I suppose it will have to be Wes Brown! As much as it really doesn't excite me, I don't see what other options there are?
great piece on valon wanting to stay at west ham.brilliant player.hope he signs an extension asap.
Irons- not getting results, upson- not playing gd yet he is captain, Quashie- dont have a monkeys of who he is, spector- can he defend?, ilunga- why the hell did west ham sign him, Kovac- you dont wanna know, why have the Irons signed some pathetic players? frustrating.
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