What a disappointment that was. I genuinely thought we’d tonk them 4 or 5-0 today. I know we have a bad record against them lately, but even so. They were there for the taking.
We started well – like Villa, we were quickest out of the traps and battered them in the first ten minutes. But to no avail. And then, at a time when Everton were being outplayed again, up popped Louis Saha to do what he normally does against us and score. Rob Green was rooted to the spot and didn’t even see it. Instead of reacting we just went to pieces for the whole middle part of the game. It was only when Diamanti replaced Jimenez that we came to life again. Once we scored we dominated and could so easily have won. Hines spurned two cast iron chances, which summed up his whole game. And Diamanti insisted on going for glory time after time, rather than play the simple ball. But it has to be said that it’s a mystery why he didn’t start and the ineffectual Limahl look-a-like, Jimenez did.
The difference between the two sides was named Fellaini. He had an astonishingly influential game. There seemed to be two of him on the pitch on occasion. He had an absolute stormer of a game. Everything Everton did went through him. He won virtually every header, every tackle, and virtually every pass went where it was intended. A fantastic performance.
Despite the fact that we conceded two goals – again – I thought we looked we looked OK defensively. Da Costa had a great game – again – and looks so comfortable alongside Upson, who also had a good game. Faubert was very busy in the second half, but he really cannot cross a ball, can he? Spector had one or two forays going forward, but he’s no Ilunga in the opposition’s half. He improved at the game went on.
I assume Collison was subbed as he had picked up a knock. He hadn’t been on his best form but hadn’t done anything wrong. Behrami looked great operating centrally and I’d lilke to see him have a few games there. He and Parker looked very comfortable together and as usual he was buzzing all over the place. Jimenez did very little to justify his inclusion. You always felt he was about to give the ball away, and he didn’t disappoint. Scott Parker had his best game of the season. He played a much more attacking game than usual and was at the centre of everything we did going forward. He was our man of the match by a country mile. Stanislas always looks dangerous and he has a real eye for goal. He could so easily have bagged a second with a shot from outside the area which just went wide.
Franco did very well in the second half after a largely anonymous first forty five minutes. He held the ball up well but I don’t recall a single shot on goal. Hines had the proverbial mare. Nothing he tried came off and for most of the first half looked thoroughly dejected and out of place. In the second half he found himself out on the right, but it was only when Diamanti came on that he brightened up. Indeed, he had to cast iron chances which on another day he would have scored, But not today.
And then there was Diamanti. Quite why he doesn’t start a game is something only Zola can know. When he came on he changed the game. As he did against Arsenal too. He is brilliant at set pieces and inventive too. He’s also very very frustrating as he is a glory hunter. He only has to have sight of goal and he will shoot. Sometimes that’s a good thing, but not when other players have moved into good positions. He played some sublime passes forward, right to feet, and if he is given a run in the team I am sure he will come good. But where do you play him? Personally, I’d play him in the hole behind the front two, as part of a four man midfield, alongside Collison, Parker and Behrami. He’s not an out and out striker.
Part of the reason why we didn’t win today was that Zola reverted to a 4-3-3 fprmation to accomodate Jimenez. It didn’t work. At all. I hope he won’t make that mistake again.
Green 7
Faubert 6
Spector 6
Da Costa 8
Upson 7
Collison 6
Stanislas 6
Parker 9
Behrami 7
Jimenez 5
Hines 5
Franco 7
Diamanti 7
I thought Faubert was excellent, Iain and I am one of his biggest critics. Spector was also solid, but when you have a team like Everton with so little intent on attacking, it's hard not to have a good game at the back.
I'm still not panicking, we are much better than at least 8 sides in the prem.
Reposted from previous thread
A few hours have past, my hangover has cleared and I still feel sick as a parrot. Certain things in life defy explanation and todays match was one of them. The easy thing to point to is the fact that Cole was missing and I doubt anyone would argue with that. Its impossible not to think that with Cole fit and on form we would have handed out a tonking today.
Everton came to park the bus today and they did it very well. We pressed and pressed but faced with a wall of blue we looked for one more pass, players in shooting positions opted to pass, it was a case of a flamboyant Italian versus a canny Jock and it was the jock who won.
We had enough chances to win the game but we didnt convert them.
For me Upson should have done better for both of their goals. He was completely outplayed by DaCosta today. If Diamanti hadnt joined DaCosta would be looking like the buy of the season. With regard to Diamanti he simply has to start from now on. He completely unsettled their defence and was the reason they had to send Neil on to try and reorganise them and prevent the equalising goal.
Franco played too deep today, its obvious he is used to playing as a supporting striker and didnt work Yobo and Dystin hardenough to make room for Hines who although a young guy still learning his trade was a little wasteful in dangerous positions. Stan looked more effective when he came on as he has the self confidence to back himself.
There were 3 WestHam captains on display today, there was last seasons captain playing for everton, there was Upson playing for us and there was Scott Parker who should be man with the armband. His display today could have been recorded and shown to kids on what makes an outstanding midfield leader. He drove the team forward and put in a near super human effort. As for Upson he was useless as a leader and distinctly average as a defender. He made no attempt to block Saha's shot and in fact pulled out of the way and he didnt react when Green parried the ball for the second goal.
All in all he should be sold in January, actually he should have been sold in July so we could have kept Ginge and given Scotty the armband. Behrami was back to his best today and Faubert is over his little dip in form. Spector had a very solid game but was lucky not to be facing an out and out wide man so wasnt under that much pressure, that said he could have done better on the second goal.
Last word for Diamanti, the guy is a special special player. To anyone who moaned about us paying £6M for a "second" division no name Italian player I hope you kept your words soft and sweet because you are going to have to eat them.
I am gutted we lost today but hugely encouraged by some of the performances and football we showed today!
Lets all watch MOTD to see how they have skillfully edited the match so that the highlights make it look like we were lucky to escape with only losing 2-1 while ignoring the fact that the ref was yet again well off the pace.
What will it take for the FA to do something about the appaling standard of officiating in the league?
Is it poor refereeing, bad management or what ,are we unorganised?Help!
Our biggest problem is lack of leadership!
Just watching the game on sky as I didn't make it today.
Diamanti was class compared to Jimenez surly he must get a start next game.
In the second half we were all over them it was crazy!
why did we start 4 3 3 again? 4 4 2 in the second and we ripped em to shreads!
so much more width.
Game coming to the end on t.v,some of the balls Diamanti played were breathtaking he must start next match,but where?
If he plays in the hole behind 2 strikers we lose width.
maybe 4 4 1 1 but then we are back to one upfront again,
I'm still not sure Zola know's his best team.
Who ever he chooses he need's to know Diamanti's left foot is wasted on the bench.
The next game against hull will be our biggest game for years.
Good night.
Even Zola has now been quoted as saying "West Ham Have Problems" and that he is concerned as is everyone around the club!
Not a wise move! The players are already doubting themselves and hearing this isn't going to help their confidence!
The ONLY reason I am worried or "concerned" is because we have given everything and played really well the last few games and we have only managed 1 win!
We HAVE played really well and our finishing has let us down! As much as I like Hines and think this year will be great for him and US, he isn't ready yet to step into Coles boots! Franco hasn't adapted yet and the unthinkable happened, Cole got injured! We miss Carlton a great deal today!
I have no idea what is going to happen in January! I have no idea if C&B will inject some cash, I have no idea if we will buy any new players, or sell any of our team! I have no idea if we will have new owners, but I DO know that if we don't start putting our chances away, we will be lucky to stay in the Prem!
Yeah, yeah I know you all think it's too early to worry! And I'm not saying we will get relegated, I am saying that if we don't start to buck our ideas up after Christmas, we will find the rest of the season VERY difficult!
Actually Matt I think you're right to be concerned, we all should be to a certain extent.
I still think it's too early to panic though, mainly as we are yet to play the bulk of our games against the mid-table and lower teams, and if we play against them as we have been, we should [fingers crossed] pick up the points we need.
matt im with you on this one m8, i dont have a monkeys of whats happenin with west ham or whats going to happen in the future, im telling you even zola is concerned, Diamante what a player, he is now my favourite player, brilliant, what you think matt?
oh and matt, thanks for accepting my apology in the last thread, every1 was put off,
I see our phantom markerdowner is back! Careful guys he will click the thumbs down icon…woooooooo scary!
Lol it's YOU isn't it! You decided to teach me a lesson by giving me thumbs down didn't you? lol!
I don't know how I am going to cope now! lol
no ive been marking my own posts down! I suffer from terribly low self esteem!
Well someone doesn't like us! We both have a -1 now! And I can't mark my own post down, I just tried! lol
CH, u have any idea of why we lost m8, im confused
v disappointing. A game we should have won. I presume you left jimmy off the list as he was anonymous during the game ? The Hines score is harsh , he’s a kid and he is getting in the positions hard to knock him for that and his trying to do it on his own. As for Franco i completely disagrre . A couple of nice touches in deep areas but he isnt a goal threat , bottled a straight forward header in the 2nd half , is really slow and gave the ball away in the lead up to Their second goal to day. What’s infuriating is that we have no decent strikers other than CC and a kid. Zolas going on about poor finishing but he hasnt learnt from the fact that We really struggled last season with Tristan and Di Michele up front for three months and Zola still didn’t get any cover in if Cole gets injured. Second half today was the first time for months we have had two wingers and we had target man. Also someone needs to explain to me why Diananti isn’t starting,it’s a mystery to me. Not happy. We were unlucky but that won’t save us from the dreaded relegation dogfight . Onward to Hull my friends … What a massive game !!
Today's was a result I had feared and it's another which will keep us well and truly in the bottom half of the table this year unfortunately. As good an effort and the individual performances we are seeing, the team lack balance. I would say we are not even half way there with our development which is okay seeing as we are in our second of five years. As much effort as Faubert and Spector put in they are not up to class. Faubert has speed but his crosses are aimless. Apart from Stanislas we have no wingers in the squad, poor fullbacks, no quality reserve keeper, a second quality striker, and another very skillful midfielder.
Zola on one hand is fantastic and on the other is killing us. His ideas are based on having complete trust in your players individual and team skill and some of them are just not good enough.
The only reason I can see that Diamanti is starting on the bench is to try and control his ego. The guy has incredible talent but he's a show pony and not always a team player. Perhaps Zola has seen enough to make him wary of blowing Diamanti up to much. You may argue 'who cares if he is going to win us games right now', but from what we've seen he has the potential to be a premiership star.
De Costa looks great and if he maintains form may allow us to sell Upson if someone if foolish enough to offer us 8-10mil for him. It would be a risk but if Upson is preparing to run his contract down we may have to take it.
Hines is going to be a good player for us. From what we have seen of both who would others pick out of him and Sears? Because I think it may come down to that come next summer.
I couldn't agree less mate!
Ego??? Come on, you can't seriously think that! Zola is not stupid enough to throw away a winning situation by benching someone because he has an "ego".
The reason Zola doesn't start Diamanti (in my opinion) is because when he brings him on, he changes the game! And he does!
When he starts, the opposing team climatize themselves to him and he's less effective but when he is brought on, he is so unpredictable and he casuses problems and creates chances.
Saying that, I still think he should start certain games.
For me, Diamanti brings an element of unpredictability into our play, and is currently more effective as an impact sub. Must admit it would be interesting to see him start a few matches though.
5 for Hines? How could he possibly score that high? And you forgot the 2 for Jiminez.
I am NOT in the sack-Zola camp, but he still needs to think for 2 weeks about this love for Jimenez. OK, give him a half, but how he came out to start the second half is completely beyond me. Jimenez's every touch was dire. His corners and free kicks were worse than Noble's.
For Zavon, I'm of 2 minds. The good side is that this was simply a bad bad game where he did everything wrong with the ball, and he will simply learn from this and never have such a bad game again. I think that good side probably applies to those two last shots he sent wide. The bad side is that his decision-making with the ball running at a VERY PROFESSIONAL group of defenders was nowhere near Premier class.
Spector had an absolutely terrific game. And Parker was again the best player on the pitch. Faubert was fine save for his crossing. Da Costa generally did well.
I do not think Behrami was "at his best". There were times he played great, and times he gave the ball away horribly. We've seen better. 6 at best.
I thought Upson was again awful on both of those goals, so slow to react.
Franco was NOT offside at the death. A professional team needed to find ways to get points from this home match. THat is why relegation is still a great great worry as the home games are ticking away. The next two after a two week international break, with presumably Carlton NOT on international duty will be absolutely key. Burnley showed they are no pushover. And if we can't beat Hull then get ready for the Championship with Hines & Jiminez…
As far as I'm concerned Upson can sod off in January!
just watching now and our crosses are shocking! not one has beaten the front man yet !!!parker has been mom easy,great engine and some great runs forward for a change.diamanti has to be first on the team sheet and build a side round him.and a quick note for stanislas…well done.
Yes, best side (til Ilunga is back) is now
Faubert – Da Costa – Gabbidon? – Spector
Parker
Behrami Collison Stanislas
Diamanti
Cole
(Franco for Cole). I'm half joking on the Gabbidon, but what does it say when it's not clear your "captain" should be on the pitch…
Why do we leak so many goals and why do we keep getting beat ?we cant win without a strong defence!
UPSON – Medicore defender and POOR captain!
FAUBERT – Not a defender!
SPECTOR – 1 good game in every 10!
ILUNGA – Shadow of teh player he was last season!
DaCOSTA – Finding his feet but will come good!
TOMKINS – Makes silly mistakes but will come good!
NEILL – GONE! lol
GREEN! Doesn't give a crap!
There is no West Ham player who deserves to play for England. Yes, all the England centre halves are now awful (save Terry, though he is too slow for strikers like Van Persie, torres, etc.) but Upson has been worse. Cole too injury prone, though he's a better target man now than the useless Heskey.
I agree that Parker has been Hammer of the Year yet again, but 1 goal from the last 55 games is simply not international quality…
ps why does celtic have to write so much?
Because he likes to!
Is it a problem? lol
I only saw the MOTD2 highlights tonight so probably not as well informed as I could be but it looked to me we should have got something in the second half. This result puts all last Wednesdays efforts in the shade. If anything, we would have been better off winning today, as we need to do what Everton do in beating the teams around or below them. We all enjoy beating the top four from time to time as we generally do, but we need to concentrate more on taking the points against the 'lesser' teams. Usually I wouldn't group Everton as weak, but they were on a run worse than us, low morale, tons of injuries, away from home. A point at the very least was vital today. I know we missed Cole, but we should have had enough back up. Trying to be positive, (honest), but we must learn very fast if we are to get away from the bottom. Plus points were Parker as always, Diamante and Franco looks useful for the future. Everone is saying De Costa was great but the highlights didn't really show that. GZ give Parker the armband please! COYI
Hi Ray!
The only thing is, MOTD will ALWAYS edit our gamesto make out opposing team look better! They hate us! I don't even bother watching it anymore, even if it's my only option!
I'm lucky enought ohave SKY so Football First is good for me!
I would liek Parker as captain too but he just isn't on the pitch enough lately! EIther sent off, suspended or injured! But agree he would be good if he could stay on!
I know what you are saying Matt about the MOTD coverage. In fact I could go on forever…always on last, unless we are playing someone like Chelsea at the Bridge, never any constructive comments by the so called experts, otherwise known as Hammer haters. In fact they nearly always edit the programme so there is no comments whatsoever about the Hammers games. It is so obvious it is embarrassing. I too may boycott the whole thing too soon and stick to SKY, although I may be paranoid, but are they better?
I think they are mate! You get good highlights on Football First and some good discussion afterwards! Good commentary too!
Fair play Matt. Might stop me throwing things at the TV towards Lawrenson & Shearer!! Cheers!
either costa's 7ft 8 or bugger me he can jump high !!!
I won't bugger you if it's ok, but YES, the boy can jump! lol
We were unlucky, but can’t disguise the weak finishing, makeshift defence and lack of heavyweight cover upfront. David Moyes said after the game that Everton didn’t play well but “know how to win” and that sums it up well. For periods of the game we looked brilliant and gave it our all but there’s not enough ruthlessness or confidence in the final third. Cole and Diamanti to start against Hull!
no question that was 1 weird game…….felt guilty after my comments midweek that with West Ham dominating possession means nothing, because sadly it doesnt and scoring goals has ALWAYS been our achilles heel. Like many others i am VERY keen on Da Costa. Thought Upson definately at fault with the 1st goal and someone (not sure who) seemed to missing in action on the left side of defence for the 2nd. Not as sure about Behrami, my impression is he creates very little but buzzes around and defends well. Diamanti a wild card that transforms the team….selfish or not he creates massive problems for the oppposition and we desperately need him on the pitch
as a complete footballing aside……how impressive was the minutes silence before the game !!! with all the criticism our club and fans incessantly cop i think we should be very proud today…….it was spine tingling. Take a bow those at the ground
Let,s face it we were playing an under strength Everton side but you know what Zola to me regurgitates the same crap after every game ,big game need focus,work on that for the next game,get things right for the future we will work harder on fixing things for the next game.
Please Gianfranco we cant get rid of you it will cost us,if you relegate us you will cost us money if someone does not buy us we wheelspin in the long grass and go backwards the solution is stop talking gobbledeegook and start talking tough cos mate you are letting us down with the project.
Graham I'm not a Zola fan but Losing Cole is simply massive we have no one else,If Cole had played I feel we would of got some kind of result,I think both center halfs didn't close down quick enough for the goals.
If we go down I feel the kids will bring us back up their that good.
Off to work now for a bloody spud ear bashing!
Good luck mate but I am sick of Zola,s lack of managerial nous it has come to a point where I was overjoyed at watching us against Villa,tremendous but you know what is coming next time you just know! It is coming down to accepting another year of our lives following the Hammers and nothing but at least out here no-one cares but I truly feel sorry for you running the gauntlet but I loved it when David Cross scored 4 times at white fart lane oh joy!
We sound like an alcoholic…"I'm NOT an alcoholic" or a gambling adict…."we can't go down, we are having bad luck, we are better than that"….well, I am affraid that we are not! We are now in serious trouble with injuries, ongoing financial problems and poor performances…this is how it starts, we all know how it ends…I can't see any blue sky right now!
Sorry if this has been covered but did anyone see the matchday program yesterday? Go to team photo in the middle and do you see anyone that's missing? That's right Dean Ashton.
Quashie, Boa Morte, Dyer….even Calum Davenport turned up! We know it's a very recent photo because Diamanti's hair has gone. Is this the biggest clue that Aston will never come back, Or was he do busy down the pie shop?
Also why i'm at it, if its possible can we have Katy Perry and the WHU basque on at half time against Burnley, it might spur the players on a bit.
I saw the Katy Perry picture too !!! yes please, half time entertainment sorted.
We all agreed at the beginning of this season that we were lacking up front. Nothing has changed, we still need a goal scorer. IF we don't buy in January we may well go down!!! The only saving grace ist that there are 5 or six other sides just as bad as we are !!!!
The big teams are getting bigger and the others are falling by the wayside, it won't be long until there is an elite league and we won't be in that for sure, but then again we may hold our own LOL
Sure we play 'pretty' footbal, but that never won anything, give me blood and guts footie and 3 points please.
P.S – Santa, for Xmas can WHU please have someone who knows where the back of the net is ????????
Upson and Green don't seem to 'want' to play for us anymore, big time charlie's, drop them both that's what I say, give 'em a run with the reserves, no one player is bigger than the club we love.
Another game, another frustration, and I think this will be a long season but I am also sure that we will stay up! With or without Zola. But we have to look at the big picture and realize that we are in lot of problems as a club. We have outstanding debt, a lot of negative energy around the club, and no one will buy us, we have a lot of players who are over payed and dont play good, or they dont play at all, we will have to sell players in Januray (Upson will go ), Curbishley problem… This all reminds me of Leeds, and look where they ended up. So if we drop this season, sell overpaid plays, some one buys us, and then maybe we could become a stable club once again, start from the begining so in a long run relegation maybe is not a bad thing. Maybe it is good to sacrifice one season for the sake of the clubs future.
People talk of gloom and doom at the club but looking at our players they seem to be together, not like it was in Pardew or Curb's time. I believe we will get out of trouble. It's a tight league this year. There are just six points between us and 9th place and it's only just November. But it's clear we need more fire power and hopefully we can address that in January. I don't know if Upson and Green will go any more that anyone else but I know we'd miss Green more. But even if they do go the sale might give GZ the funds to find replacements. Going down is not an option. COYI!!!
Well said PaulO, we are playing the right style of football and that is important, the results will follow I am sure. My biggest worry is off pitch wondering will we go bankrupt before we are sold.
The problem is, I keep hearing we are to good to go down….I heard that a few years ago when we were stacked to the rafters with class players.
Sure we can play a decent game and look much better than our results suggest, but we are not scoring and yes it is very possible that we could be in serious trouble come Christmas time.
The players look unified and workmanlike in the way they play but it is not clicking as it should, and you can only put that down to confidence.
This is where the team management might just be wrong and missing something or are the off field problems finally hitting home.
We went down with a better team than this!
I know, its a real worry. The only difference Matt is, that team were full of players who didn't think it would happen to them and were lazy until it was to late, at least this team seems to try their best.
Agree mate! That team were (with exceptions) turning into complete primadonnas!
This team seem to want to fight for their right to play in the Prem!
Which is why I THINK we might just be ok!
But am a little concerned mate!
Any news on Cole's hamstring? we must have him back for the Hull match,I think we can all agree we lose that we are down.
listen guys, but if you say upson is bollocks, why is he playing for England, Cappelo doesnt take in rubbish players..
So our little recovery is over and everybody hits the panick button again.Did'nt get to see the game but from what i watched on MOTD and read in various write ups we were unlucky not to at least get a point,so the team does seem to be pulling in right direction.The bottom half of the league is very tight with 9 teams separated by just 5 points and think its going to be like that all season so anyone who puts a little run together will jump up the table so lets see where we are at chrimbo before we hit the panick button!
Part 1
Afternoon all – I've had a day to think about the game and I'd like to think that I am the voice of reason……
Normally after a home defeat, I'd be pretty angry and there would be vehement gesticulation at the necessary guilty parties BUT i came away from the game on Sunday not that downhearted because when all is said and done – We lost a game we had no right to do so. I CANNOT find a single party to blame ('cept the ref who was utter pants!) – it was just one of those days – Everton had 3 shots at goal and scored 2 of them and Yobo had as good a game as i've ever seen from a centre half and Fellaini won 90% of his headers.
Throughout the team, there were positives – Both full backs played well, Da Costa was excellent, Matty had his best game in ages, Parker was IMMENSE and didnt deserve to be on the losing team and Zavon caused them constant trouble and on another day could have had a hat-trick. Only poor performances were Jack who was way off the pace and Franco who contributed nothing. Just one of those days I'm afraid……
Jolly nice to see somone with something positive to say well done mate!
I agree Jolly. I was not going to watch the replay after keeping track online but i'm glad i did. There was enough quality to make Everton feel lucky they got a result.
I simply love watching Diamanti get the ball and run up field with such confidence. I hope the boys know they are a class squad in the making. We'll come out of this…
Diamanti – best to not discuss him 'cos on one hand his pass for Jnr's goal was superb and on the other he's a greed fecker who needs to learn to pass a ball instead of trying 40yd shots every 5 mins!!!!!
Strongly disagree. Look at what Bullard did yesterday. A couple of awful shots, and then a blast at the keeper saved but knocked right back in. That easily could have happened.
I don't care if he "changes games". How about getting (AND HOLDING) a lead, for once??????
Part 2
Final positive – I got home in 45 minutes!!!!!! i haven't got home that quick in Donkey's years – say what you like about the recession but it's making getting home from the footy easier!
While i remember – 1 complaint.
Why did GZ only use 2 subs??????
With 10mins to go he should have taken Franco off and brought Deprela on at LB – he could have switched Spector to RB, pushed Faubert to RM and freed Diamanti to go up top – but instead he did……… Nothing!!!!!
First time i've ever doubted GZ's tactical accumen.
Disagree completely on a few points you raise, Jolly – although I really cannot understand the posters still saying we will get relegated – we won't!
Da Costa looks a real find, junps like a salmon, good on the ball, strong and reads the game well. As a big fan of Tomkins, it's hard to see how he gets back in barring injuries, unless Upson goes in the window?
Disagree completey with your assessment of Franco – did lots of good things, even if he was fairly quiet towards the end of the game. I also thought Zola was proactive rather than reactive when he made his two substitutions, something he hasn't done previously. Could he have made a 3rd substitution? Possible, but we were so far on top it looked a matter of time when we would score.
Devo – totally agree about Da Costa – he looks to be the best headerer (?!?) of a ball i've seen in years. Totally disagree about Franco – he kept coming way too deep to get the ball and left Hines completely isolated up top. We kept hitting high balles up to Hines to either chase or control. He had virtually no chance with the ones aimed at his head and no one to support him with the ones aimed at his feet as France was too often 20yds behind play.
I am kinda split between both your opinions guys! I thought Franco played well but I did think it strange he was deeper than Hines to whom we were knocking the high balls.
Like so many on here I was concerned when we sold Ginge but Da Costa could be even better – he and Tompkins could make a great partnership and we have a couple of good young players in reserve. I would not be unhappy to see Upson go in January – if we don't sell him then we will never get a decent price because of his age and fact it seems unlikely he will extend contract.
The 'Ashton to retire' stories seem to be growing in strength and so at least that should free up some insurance money (of course that is poor substitute for a fit Deano).
Yeah, that header that flew about 40 yards to set up Hines on goal was phenomenal!
Peter – the general consesus on here is that it won't be the end of the world if Upson goes in jan and we cash in. We cannot afford to lose Green, though, as we have no cover. Da Costa could also partner Gabbidon as gabbs is left footed and is quicker than Tomka.
Agree we need to keep Greeno. I keep forgetting about Gabs – is he injured again?
The worse thing for us was conceding the first goal. Had we scored first, Everton would have had to come at us and I have no doubt we would have won the game comfortably. Their attempts to break up our rhythm through fouling and timewasting was reminiscent of Leeds in the 70's.
I still believe we will finish 11-12th – let's not forget that most of our games so far have been against the top sides from last season.
We also need a big change of luck as well as some decent refereeing decisions to go our way. I can recall so far: Parker's goal at Citeh when Cole was wrongly adjudged to have fouled Lescott. Cole's goal at Wigan with Wiley inexplicably blowing for half time after he had headed over the keeper, Parker's sending off against Arsenal, Kovac's sending off against Sunderland, Franco's disallowed goal against Everton……………………you get my drift.
I know what you are saying Devo, its hard to complain about refereeing decisions without sounding like you are just making excuses for a poor team but given some of the mind boggling decisions we have been on the end of this season it really makes me believe that we are going to have to fight twice as hard for every point this season.
When you look at the Cole disallowed goal, Parkers disallowed goal against citeh which would have levelled the game, Huth decking Upson and us not even getting a penalty, Parkers and Kovac's sending off and the Franco goal plus a host of denied penalty claims and refs inability to make the most mundane of decisions correctly you have to think that while our league position is primarily down to our failing to take our chances we are really getting shafted at every turn by officals.
On the refereeing front – I normally think that Fergie is out of line when he starts salgging off referees BUT having seen Alan Whiley first hand now – I think Fergie had him spot on!
He allowed Everton to time waste SO much that you had to assume that he was enjoying the rest. He twice took overly long to have a chat with an Everton player when he should have gone to his back pocket and some of his decision making was just bad – Fellaini got away with murder in the 1st half and Cahill stamped on Behrami and was not even booked?
I still don't see us as a poor team, CH. We haven't had many poor performances per se, just bad mistakes and flawed formations (as well as square pegs in round holes). I'm pretty certain we will turn it round as long as the players continue to show the application they displayed against Everton, Villa & arsenal.
*this appraisal is subject to alteration if it all goes horribly wrong against Hull & Burnley.
Devo I am not saying we are a poor team, just that you end up sounding like you are making excuses for a poor team by blaming refs even if your complaints are justified.
We are no where near a poor team mate! That display on Sunday was excellent!
When the season started, I was going by last season and said we'd finish 7th! Right now I'd take 17th! lol
I don't think (at the moment) we will be relegated! If we in this position in February, then of course that view will change!
But I AM a little concerned that we are giving it everything and not able to convert that effort to goals and wins! If we go into christmas in the bottom 3 or even 4, we will find the second half of the season SO hard!
Devo our squads way to short upfront to finish 11th mate,every prem team should have 4 quality strikers,we have 1 in Cole,Franco's quite good as is Hines,Diamanti's not really a striker good thou.our forward options used to be Ashton,Bellamy,Cole,Zamora.
If these were still available we would be half way now.
Sorry fella but I think we've had it.
chris, with all due respect, you had already made that conclusion even though you hadn't witnessed the Everton game – that's hardly a critical viewpoint!
Of course, our front men looked stronger on paper – but let's not forget Cole was being called all kinds during the era you relate to. Zamora's a great worker and target man, but no scorer and Bellamy's departure was out of the club's hands.
Given a few more games a front 4 of Cole, Franco, Hines & Dixon should be good enough, especially with Diamanti Colly & Stanislas chipping in.
Our biggest downfall this season has been the individual mistakes made at the back.
You might be right that we fall short of 11 th, but we won't go down, I promise you.
im not pissed off with west ham, ye they lost and ye its frustrating, but in the heart i know the Irons outplayed everton, can outplay any1, its just goals are not being scored, just gotta be patient even if this goes on a long time, the time will come where the Irons will get results…
i did read somewhere that GZ is positive in thinking cole may be back after the break.
Read and heard that a few times mate! Not as lucky with Ilunga though apparently!
looks like its all over for ashton.such a shame.gutted if this is true but looking more likely as the web is full of it now.hope he finds a career as a coach or something asap.
Has anyone else noticed that as the stories about Ashton retiring gather pace in the press the media tone is starting to make us look like a bunch of vultures for wanting to recoup our loss though the FA's insurance. No doubt we will yet again be villified by these muppet journalists
Celtic, to be honest with you, I couldn't give a monkey's what the media say about us anymore! I'm sick of the Mail and Mirror and all their crap! Although the Mirror HAVE published a couple of half decent articles about us lately!
I'm surprised you care mate!
I do feel for Ashton, he is a great player when he's fit! It is such a shame we couldn't get him fit! He could have been a great player for us and just what we needed.
But for what it's worth, I think he is doing the right thing (if it IS true) for his own sanity and self respect and I wish him well with his endeavours!
Hi Guys, news coming from the ground is that Ashton could announce his retirement as early as Wednesday!
Could even be tomorrow mate according to TalkShite!
Having missed the game both on line & on MotD2 I obviously can't comment too much, but having just read all the posts and based on the season so far, I have come to several conclusions;
1. Upson is not interested in staying a Hammers player, we should cash in in January, although if he carries on like this his stock is going to be lower than the 12 milion we were anticipating in the summer. Perhaps Dux will relent and sell him to Harry's boys?
2. Aligned to the above comment, we are sorely lacking leadership; and I still think that is both on and off the pitch.
3. Diamanti must start a few games to see what he can do over 90 minutes
4. We miss CC so badly. I note that even CH agrees with this now!
5. We have some positives in that we are better than a number of teams in this league, but we have been here before and need to start stringing some wins together, as losing becomes a habit.
COYI (In our hearts we have faith!)
Agree on points:
1 (Upson must go)
2 (Upson is a lousy captain)
3 (the only reason he starts from the bench is because he changes games)
4 We do miss Cole greatly!
But even though we are better than at least 9 teams (in my opinion) in the EPL. they are winning and we're not right now!
Thanks Matt. Keep your chin up, it will get better and if it doesn't? Well we have all been here before and life goes on with the claret and blue blood still flowing through our veins.
Yes mate! I will believe until it's impossible to stay up! But that concern is always there in the back on one's mind!
I know we have been relegated before but IF the unthinkable happened this season, it would be so much worse! We would lose ALL our best players and because of our financial situation (if we still in this state in June) will would find it very hard to attract any players better than Quasie and LBM!
I was devestated last time, it happened and even when Newcastle and 'Boro went down last season, I really felt for them. I think you have to have been in that situation to understand how it feels.
We have been in that situation and I really don't want to feel that way again.
Shropshire – missing MOTD2 is no loss, mate! Take it from me, we should have won the game comfortably, we played some really good stuff in the 2nd half, Diamanti was superb and singled out on MOTD2, Parker, however, was different class.
I think we are all beginning to feel the same re Upson and as CH posted post-game, he didn't do enough to challenge Saha on the 1st goal (think Rio turning his back). Selling him would give our true leader Parker, the armband.
Zola will have to start with Diamanti next time up and as for Cole – I truly believe, fitness permitting, he will be in the England line up alongside Rooney when the WC begins – he is that good now.
Had we played badly on Sunday and with no passion I would be very concerned. That wasn't the case and I think people are getting carried away.
Upwards and onwards.
Devo we don't beat Hull it's curtains,this games our biggest for years.
Can you explain that remark mate?
It is a big game Chris, but to say its curtains if we don't win is a little premature. There will still be another 26 games and 78 points to play for!
Cheers DevoDevo.
I am struggling with Upson. He really has (had?) a chance of going to South Africa, so I can't believe his dip in form is out of lack of interest. So, what is it? Has the captaincy taken his toll or has he genuinely lost his form? Or is he just not quite as good as perhaps we all thought?
I agree with Parker, if I remember rightly we voted for him as our captain on this site, but as someone else said, I am worried about his constant omissions due to suspension or injury. Could Behrami fill the role at some stage? To me he is the sort of player that would really fire up the players around him. We certainly haven't got many other obvious options.
Upwards and onwards indeed.
Why is everyone so anti-MOTD? I love that show, especially if Lee Dixon is on. (Lawrenson is a total joke.) I just watched and compared to the comments I read on this comments site I thought they were totally fair. The commentator said the Saha goal was "completely against the run of play". True. Afterwards, Hansen went on and on about how terrific Diamanti was. We all agree here. They highlighted how Behrami got stomped, but no card. I thought it was all very fair, and they showed opportunity after opportunity wasted by Hines, etc. or where Parker just couldn't convert.
Matt the thing is I think the media attitude towards us has had a much more wide reaching effect on us than people realise. Because we have been made into this cartoon super villian of a club, who are run by evil Ice men who have robbed peoples savings and then cheated to stay in the premier league.
All of this negative press has in mind got a cumlative effect on how we are precieved. Its one thing for average football fans are only to happy to believe every piece of garbage printed about us in the press, that we are a crisis club that we are on the brink of financial extinction, that our star players are practically falling over each other to get out the door. All that means is that we have to put up with a bit more stick than usual from work colleagues and mates and fair enough, we didnt become Hammers fans becasue we wanted to join the herd. But when it gets into the minds of officals that we are a club with a history of cheating and being dishonest then it has an actual impact on how they view us.
How many 50/50 decisions have we won? Very very few.
Most officals ref the game in a time lag of about 10seconds between something happening and them ruling on it. In that 10 seconds they have to weigh up what happened, whos fault it was and what punishment it warrants. Now in a lot of cases its pretty cut and dry but in a 50/50 when the ref (most of whome cant keep up with the play in the first place) has to make a quick decision he is unlikely to favour the player from the club with the reputation for cheating.
I genuinely think that we have lost a lot of these decisions before we have even left the tunnel.
The thing is mate, if someone tells somebody something over and over and over, eventually they will start top believe it and even start to doubt themselves and their original beliefs!
But….it's not only us that is having a rough time with refs, I know the Franco decision on Suday was a terrible one but there are other teams that get a rough deal too, Villa weren't that lucky agaisnt us on Weds.
You may have a point CH. The old maxim is true; if you throw enough mud some of it will stick. I know from colleagues in Manchester and Leeds that they seem to think we are a bit of a joke at the moment, although most of them still have a bit of a soft spot for us or at least that's what they tell me!
how comes upsons underperforming? i thought he was a good defender
This season is so like the Roeder year we went down, the similarities are alarming,rookie manager,to good to go down, no strikers etc,it's real scary! Although part of me does not seem bothered,and I don't know why.
NO strikers????
Defoe
DiCanio
Ferdinand
Kanute
Garcia
Camara
WOuldn't mind that lot now!
If you remember matt we lost them all for a long time(its the point I'm trying to make) this is what took us down,we even had Ian pearce up front in games!
Lol ok! Aaaahhh good ol' pearce!