Zavon Hines has recently stated in an interview that West Ham are one of the few top clubs, producing and giving first team opportunities to its youth players. While West Ham signed a young central defender from a non-league club in the summer. Shades of Alan Devonshire!!!! If only we could unearth a hidden gem like him these days for the modern equivalent of £5,000!
The development of youngsters at clubs like Chelsea has undoubtedly been hindered by their cheque book recruitment policy. Man Utd still produce one or two youngsters, but it is a trickle rather than a flow. What domestic youngsters have made the grade at Liverpool since Carragher, Gerrard and latterly Warnock? Of the so-called big 4, Arsenal are the only club that regularly produces its own youngsters to any significant degree.
Lower down the PL the situation is not much different. Man City have a good record on youth development, but are now likely to foresake that to go the cheque book route. Whilst Villa largely buy their promising youngsters and Spurs have not produced anyone of note since Ledley King! The picture is not much better at the likes of Everton, Fulham or Birmingham City.
Is it not reasonable to assume that the Academies at good lower league clubs like Ipswich Town, Crewe and Charlton might have benefited from this situation? Picking up and developing players that fall through the PL net or late developers like Ray Houghton, Alan Devonshire and Ian Wright? With them subsequently reaping the financial benefits by picking up big transfer fees for these players when the PL teams eventually come calling?
The big clubs in the old First Divison often recruited promising prospects from the lower leagues. Think of Liverpool signing Clemance and Keegan from Scunthorpe and Phil Neal from Northampton, Spurs signing Peter Taylor from Crystal Palace, Man Utd signing Steve Coppell from Tranmere, Ipswich signing Paul Mariner from Plymouth or Nottingham Forest signing Teddy Sheringham from Millwall.
Look at West Ham’s previous record of signing the likes of Johnnny Byrne from Crystal Palace, Phil Woosman and Tommy Taylor from Orient, Bily Bonds from Charlton, Tony Gale from Fulham, Alan Taylor from Rochdale and Billy Jennings from Watford. Even as recently as the 1990s we signed the likes of Matty Holmes from Bournemouth and Peter Butler from Huddesfield Town. Yet, it is a far rarer occurance these days for the club to scout and sign players from the football league?
Sir Trevor Brooking’s battle at the FA on youth development is well documented. One of his key areas of contention has been securing the co-operation of the Football League. Is this symptomatic of a problem with youth development amongst Football League clubs?
Or is it the case that the quantity of youngsters deemed good enough to become a PL professonal footballer is just shrinking? Are societal factors such as lack of exercise and obseity having an adverse impact? Are computer games, the internet and other distractions also impacting adversely, that were just not around in previous decades?
Scotland used to have a famously rich vein of footballing talent that has now all but dried up. Where are the talents like Baxter, Cooke, McQueen, Dalgish, Souness, Law, Gemmill, Robertson, Jordan, Strachan and McAvennie now? Are we, down in England, slowly heading in the same direction?
Or is it merely the case that a smaller number of high quality English players are making it through to first team level? However, these youngsters are better equipped to succeed and learn more from some the best players in the world that currently ply their trade in the PL? Does this produce a smaller group of English thoroughbreds like Lampard, Rooney and Gerrard, rather than a larger pool of more viable quality? In that respect, are fears over the adverse impact of the number of overseas stars in the PL, on England’s future prospects, somewhat overstated?
The Football League is no longer a major recruiting ground for PL sides. Is that symptomatic of problems in domestic youth development or a by-product of a greater contemporary emphasis upon quality over quantity?
SJ Chandos.
I believe the talent is still out there but rarely given the opportunities now. The modern game calls for teams to be an instant success and the money teams are more than willing to 'buy' that success rather than nurture home talent.
Yes teams like us and a few others have good academies but very few make it to the first teams in the PL.
There are some great prospects in the lower leagues at the moment, but not many are willing to give them a chance in reality.
For example, I have been banging on about Simeon Jackson from Gillingham since the summer, he is 22 and has a great eye for goal. OK not top class football, but when you consistently score goals with both feet and your head, with fast feet and a great brain you can play at a higher level. Come on West Ham, for around 1mill he must be worth a look. Blackburn are looking and now QPR are said to be ready to make a bid.
Have alook at this u tube link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jwe84PKNdMc
Not great quality video but shows what he can do. I;m no scout, but this shows with some top training there are still lots of gems to be had in the lower divisions.
Chandos as I 've said before a few times on here my son is in the academy under 12's i dont want to go on to much about and blow trumpets but he has been kept on for another year and i'm really pleased for him,but he must train hard because he could be told at any time that he is to be released that's how cut throat it is! so far he's been there 2 year's,he was spotted at wanstead flats.
I'm not to sure about brooking to be honest,it was his idea for the 11's to play on full size piches why I don't no because the large pitch favour's the big boy's who toe punt and run forward,last year a very skillfull very small boy was realeased and my guess at the reason why,sometimes he got lost on the big pitch,Is this why England don't produce Xavi's and Inesta's.?
chrischris….Good luck to your lad. Hopefully he will continue to thrive in a tough environment.
Think, though, that you are walking on thin ice questioning Trevor Brooking's capabilities. He is not a stupid man and knows more than most when it comes to grassroots football as well as youth development.
Frankly, if Trevor asked my lad to play on a ploughed field with a cheese grater on his head, that's what he would do.
Best wishes to your nipper, though.
Brooking has been arguing for years that the kids should be playing on smaller pitches. Its the technical side of the game he has been stressing that needs improving.
Don't mean to be picky, and this certainly doesn't destroy your argument SJ, but unless my aging memory fails me, Alan Ball had a World cup winner's medal in his back pocket when Everton signed him, and Blackpool were a top flight team.
You are perfectly correct Tuckshop. Alan Ball signed for Everton in August 1966 and Blackpool were relegated the following May. Thank you for pointing that error out. I have amended the post accordingly.
Sorry to change the subject but just had to say this:
Calum Davenport has this afternoon been charged by police for assulting a woman during the incident that he was stabbed in.
Calum has denied the charge,
Matt
Hasn't been his year, has it?
Will be interesting to study the club's reaction should he be found guilty.
It is right that they support and pay him at this time as he is not guilty of anything.
Should that change with a guilty verdict, would we sack him?
In lots of professions, that would be the case. I suspect football is different.
SJ…The number of English players performing in the Premier League reduces every season, indicating that the quality of our home-grown players is on the wane.
That, coupled with the success rate of our national team since 1966, are pretty strong indicators of our continued decline.
I suspect West Ham continue their policy of blooding youngsters more by necessity than design.
I have no doubt that had Zola and Clarke been handed even a reasonable amount of money to spend of players, we would not be watching the likes of Hines and Stanislas at this stage of their careers.
west ham have the best academy system in the premier league, Joe Cole, Ferdinand, Carrick, defoe, Lampard, johnson, all came through the ranks,
can sm1 tell me, did John Terry come through the academy because im nt sure, Fishy, Matt, any ideas?
Only if you stop text typing.
At the age of 10 John Terry had trials with both Milwall and West Ham but it was West Ham who signed him up in to their famed youth academy.
Then Chelsea signed him at the age of 14.
There is no suggestion that Chelsea bunged his old man a nice few quid.
I don't think that we can claim that Terry is a product of our academy. He was hardly the finished article at 14.
Nope but we should have kept him! lol
The area in which West Ham fans can be most proud is the youth system. What other club in England, and possibly Europe produces the quality of home grown players that we do? We really should get more credit because without West Ham, England would be entering a World cup year without half the team – and basically the players. No Glen Johnson, Frank Lampard, John terry, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Jermaine Defoe. Take those players out of the squad and we wouldn't have a chance.
All clubs need to look at French clubs to see how they bring through talent – and also west ham.
I feel the critique of Everton is a little harsh as they have produced a number of top quality players over the last few years and certainly, Middlesbrough's record is Ok too. As for Arsenal, don't get me started. They buy foreigners at ridiculously young ages, put them in the reserves and then a year or two play them in the first team. It should be outlawed and certainly not held up as an example of how the rest of the league should operate. Arsenal's youth system? Do me a favour! They team kids how to play the right way but unfortunately they train foreign players to be better.
And so, my point is that no club contributes to English success as much as west ham did and continue to do – over the next couple of years, Stanislas, Hines, Tomkins, Noble, N'Gala, Spence will be called up to help out the National team
Go hammers!
nicely said andrew, true, England are nothing without west ham, and sorry for the text typing, lol,just used to it
thanks lofty…
matt u alrite mate, just found out Davenports charged, lol, and I agree hasnt been his year…
Ah memories, Dev was the laziest footballer ever at Southall and spent a week puking when on trial at the Hammers, turned into a great though, as in those days players didn’t have delusions of greatness and were wiling to give it a go.
Dev packed in at Hoover and was willing to see where WH took him, nowadays, to sign a young lad like that Jackson at Gillingham, they want contracts on big money otherwise they wont budge, staying where they are to wait for the big one.
Take Nugent, signed up for big dough and could not score in a brothel, too every team that has signed him, they have been stung.
Remember that scouser we had on loan for awhile, (cant remember his name)scored plenty in the lower leagues and red scousers signed him, again on a big contract and he never performed, after us he has ended up back in league two, but a much larger bank balance
Gone are the days when the lower league boys will sign to just get a chance, they believe that if WHU want them they need an agent who then punts them to spuds and the like and you end up paying over the top for a possible numpty.
Our Academy should be cherished!!
You mean Neil Mellor? You could see he was crap the day he made his debut at Preston. No wonder David Conolly was spitting feathers at being dropped.
Funnily enough, he's now not setting the world alight at Preston.
Good article, but I certainly can't agree vis-a-vis Arsenal's "youth system". On this scam of Arsenal–of starting the transfer market at sixteen and then passing them off as their own–then Andrew has hit the nail right on the head. I also fear that Lofty Perch may well be right on Zola and Clarke having blooded boys from West Ham's youth academy through necessity rather than design. I fear that Arsenal's practice of buying raw recruits at sixteen will become the norm amongst Premiership clubs thus once again depriving the less well off clubs the possibility of blooding their youngsters, enjoying players from their youth academies, and losing out on getting a decent transfer fee for them as well.
It begs to ask one question ,The conveyor belt of talent we have produced over the years sold for massive profits whats the benefit to us if every money grabbing thieving owners have milked us dry and these players have gone on to achieve immense success?Answer develop a decent owner who can put back success we have had stolen from us!
sorry guys, can someone tell me whos west ham playin after sunderland, thanks…
Villa next Wednesday and Everton on Saturday – both at home.
http://yle.fi/urheilu/lajit/jalkapallo/ulkomaat/2…
Interesting news on finnish site. I assume that you do not understand finnish, so let me translate a bit:
Bayern Munich are going to sell following players: Baumjohann, Gorlitz, Lell, Breno, Tymoschuk and Toni.
Zola will surely be interested. Especially in Toni.
This from the Newham Recorder: –
"WEST HAM have confirmed a date for Academy director Tony Carr's Testimonial game.
The match, which will feature the Hammers against an Academy All-Star XI, has been scheduled to take place at Upton Park on Wednesday, May 5, 2010.
Meanwhile, young winger Anthony Edgar has returned to West Ham following a month's loan at Bournemouth, for whom he made four first-team outings."
I think it's right to say that, at present, West Ham's academy is unique in the level of quality players that are coming through. How many English players come through the ranks at foreign clubs? So where are the future English players coming from. Wenger was wrong about English youth players not being good enough and Tomkins, Hines, Stanislas, Nobes, NGala et al are proof of it.
SJ makes some good points. There are other academies in England that are producing players but we're headed the way of Scotland at the present rate . Some action is needed to ensure the future of our youth schemes. The money behind Man City will dry up the chances of the youth players from their successful academy. If West Ham were to be taken over by a multi-billionaire tomorrow then the same would be likely to happen to us.
I would say after years of developement and selling anyone who is good dont the fans deserve an owner who will buy top quality also if the young players are good enough Arsenal spring to mind they will get their chance.The West Ham way has never worked think the very best and you will get the success.
You have to feel for Sctottish football fans – once was a time when every top flight English team had a bedrock of Scottish talent. Man utd had Law, Arsenal had McClintock and Liverpool had Dalglish, Hansen and Souness.
As for West Ham, well we've had our fair share too from Sandy clark to 'Tonka' Ray Stewart not forgetting Frankie 'och it was only a wee bit of charlie' McCavennie!
But now? well, here's where the violins must begin – Scotland lead the European horror league tables in nearly every teen disaster you wish to imagine – highest pregnancy rate, highest STI rate, most % obese, most drug or alcohol abuse or least amount of exercise taken – top of the pile EVERY TIME, pride of Scotland.
For every McCallister, McCoist and Strachan – you know have Mcdonalds, wimpey and Whopper.
Where is the talent in Scotland – chances are he's at a mates house playing a nicked playstation whilst smoking a spliff, drinking cheep cider and eating a deep fried Curly Wurly. When he's done, he'll pop round his girlfriends and have unprotected sex whilst her 3 other kids are in the spare room.
I know a lad who played at every schoolboy level for England as he came through the academy at Blackburn. He wasn’t going to get within 10 miles of the first team though because, despite Blackburn’s academy being universally accepted as one of the very best around, it was determined that he wasn’t going to make the grade. He moved on, bounced around at Bradford, Northampton and then dropped into the Conference trying to pursue his dream. He now plays in some crappy feeder league up north somewhere, and has a proper job while he supports a young family. Now bearing in mind that as a coach I’ve seen thousands of good players over the years this kid was the equal of Theo Walcott at 10 – yes, I saw him at 10, and he obviously can play as his England caps bear testimony, so there must be a reason as to his failure. It comes purely down to attitude – there are thousands of kids just like the one I’m describing who once they’ve had the taste think that they are the business. Talent alone is not enough these days. Roy Massey, who is responsible to Liam Brady at Arsenal, told me once that it takes them somewhere in the region of 30,000 goes to find an Ashley Cole. With clubs picking up children from the age of 8 these days it doesn’t leave a lot behind.
If you look at FA Youth Cup winning sides of recent years, particularly ours and the Man Utd one you will see that they are either full internationals or nothing. The ones that played alongside Beckham and Scholes obviously had the talent, as did those who played with Cole and Carrick, but you will find people like Anwar Uddin, Bertie Brayley and Adam Newton nowhere near the premiership. If players like that can’t make it then it appears to me that someone in the lower leagues has got to be the reincarnation of Ian Wright to get a look in and I’m afraid those days are over.
I’m not quite sure what I’m trying to say, but I hope you get the gist.
If you look at the overall picture there are a number of reasons why there are less young English players coming through. The major ones are:
1. Kids have far more options on how to spend their leisure time than in the past leading to less of them playing football. When I was a nipper (I know, I'm an old git) we spent all of our spare time kicking a ball about, either in the street (can't do that now) or the park. We didn't really have much else we could do but it meant almost every kid played football.
2. The professional game has become international which means clubs have a far bigger market to find youngsters in, thus reducing the number of British players getting into clubs.
3. A combination of the two points above. Kids from poorer countries – and the African one are the best example – still kick a ball around the streets and don't have as many alternatives as our kids. This produces more players in number leading to a better chance of some becoming good enough to play professionally.
4. The money at the top of the game means that it is an easier solution for the big clubs to buy ready-made players or good youngsters that have been developed by other clubs, usually abroad.
All of these factors naturally reduce the opportunities for home grown kids and are symptoms of a changing world. The big European leagues have a huge influx of foreign players (of all ages) but there are very few English, Spanish or Italian players from their lower leagues who go to other countries to play. This increases the inbalance.
All of this adds to the credit that is due for those at our club who have developed and built our academy.
If there wasn't a West Ham, these players would just have started out at other clubs. If you have the drive and determination and skill to make it as a pro, you won't find yourself hampered by a slightly longer commute to training.
Where I think we take credit is in having the reputation and skill to spot and attract the best kids and in running the academy well enough so that they don't drop out.
Of course, publically, I'll be claiming as much credit as possible for the Hammers if we do well at the World Cup. There was a really interesting interview on TalkSport a few months back between Alvin Martin, Danny Kelly and Tony Carr. See if you can find it on the net somewhere. Worth a listen.
A high quality – thought provoking peice as always SJ. It does raise the question of where the volume of English football talent is going these days? Why do the lower league clubs not have more gems fall in to their lap – its a very good question.
I do not think that clubs like Chelski help in other ways – they stock pile young English talent and then ultimately stunt its development. I would like to know how many young English prospects have drifted out of the game from the Chelski Academy in the last 5 yrs or so?
Like we don’t see his stash of girlfriends on the sly