I have always had a keen interest in the history of our great club. And looking back from this side of the Greenwood era it is easy to forget that West Ham were quite a modest second division outfit from the mid 1930s through to 1958. Indeed, in terms of honours, our greatest talking points were the 1923 Cup Final defeat and the 1940 War League Cup victory!
Once while on holiday, I had a conversation with an older Millwall fan and I gently ribbed him about his club’s lack of honours. His response was that the records of West Ham and Millwall were comparable prior to the 1960s, but that ‘the era of Bobby Moore changed all that.’ And really it was hard to do anything but accept his argument and be thankful that it turned out thus!!
However, I am of the view that the foundations for the subsequent transformation of West Ham’s fortunes were laid in the late 1950s under Ted Fenton’s management. The 1950s is an era that has always fascinated me. This was the period in which the famed Academy of English Football was founded. Fenton was the first West Ham manager to realise that a strong youth policy was the way forward for the club. Indeed, it is an interesting fact that many of Greenwood’s future stars were scouted as youngsters under Fenton. And that included the three jewels in the crown, Moore, Hurst and Peters.
It’s also noteworthy how many ex-Hammers players from the 1950s went on to become football league managers. Managers like Dave Sexton (Chelsea & Man Utd), Malcolm Allison (Man City & Crystal Palace), Frank O’Farrell (Man Utd), Jimmy Andrews (Cardiff City), Jimmy Bloomfield (Leicester City), Ken Brown (Norwich City), John Bond (Norwich City & Man City) and Noel Cantwell (Coventry City)
Even though we had very good players in early and mid-1950s, like Ernie Gregory, Noel Cantwell, John Bond, Terry Woodgate and Johnny Dick, we consistently failed to gain promotion. At least that was the case until the legendary 1957-58 team barnstormed their way out of division two, playing a dazzling brand of attacking football and scoring over 100 goals in the process.
And what a formidable outfit they were with Gregory in goal; Bond and Cantwell at full back; Kenny Brown at centre half; Andy Malcolm at right-half; Grice and Musgrove on the wings and the goal machines John Dick and Vic Keeble up front. The team’s quality is reflected in the ease with which they took to life in the old first division and their impressive top half finish in 1958-59.
The sad thing is that after Fenton’s dismissal in 1961, in mysterious circumstances, he came to be considered a bit of a non-person by the club’s hierarchy. In that respect, Ted Fenton’s treatment by the club is probably second only in the tragedy stakes to that received by West Ham’s first manager, Syd King. This has arguably led to his role in the modern development of the Hammers being under-estmated. Perhaps this is an appropriate time to renovate Fenton’s reputation through a re-evaluation of his contribution to the history of the club?
Last week some senior fans posted on the SJ Chandos introductory blog recalling this era. They included Old John, Bernie Bonds and Hotmort. It would be excellent if they and others would share their memories with us of the 1950s and that great promotion winning team. Similarly, if younger Hammers fans have stories about this period handed down by friends or family then also share them with us. Alternatively you may have specific questions to post for the more senior fans about this era?
I want to make this a permanent feature of WHTID, with occasional blogs on aspects of the club’s history. These will be in addition to the regular posts, so that you can contribute or just pass them over as the interest grabs you. For easy identification all such history blogs will be denoted by the number of the blog and then # and the subject.
SJ Chandos
Top idea. I think this type of history is important to get down for all future Hammers to read and absorb. I do think we sometimes think we are 'due' PL football.
http://www.inzolawetrust.com
Top idea. I think this type of history is important to get down for all future Hammers to read and absorb. I do think we sometimes think we are 'due' PL football.
http://www.inzolawetrust.com
Glad you support the feature. Yeah, you are right, younger fans need to learn and appreciate the history of the club.
I was 10 years old when my father took me to West Ham In the late 1950s .I still remember in the South Bank the sweaty tobacco smell from the men who had just finished work at the docks or Fords. The peanut seller pushing his way through the crowds,the kids who arrived late being passed over peoples heads in the North Bank to get to the front. Most of all like all of us who were lucky enough to see the great Bobby Moore develop into the greatest Hammer and probably the greatest English footballer of all time. As i write this tears fill my eyes as I think of the great man. Rob Willing
Yeah, Bobby was a Fenton boy, as was Hurst and Peters. Moore learnt a lot from Allison, who apparently he taught him to think two moves ahead of the play. Also Allison stressed the mental skill of knowing where players were positioned on the pitch at any one time, so that he knew the possibilities when he received the ball.
The outcome. Look at England’s equalising goal against West Germany, when his quick free kick found Hurst. He moved so quickly and confidently because he knew he was there. Also, Hurst’s third and England’s fourth goal when he turned defence into attack by launching a 30 yard pass for Hurst to run on to! When Mooro received the ball, he knew exactly where Hurst was and the rest, as they say, is history!
good idea .in todays greedy society it would be refreshing for the younger fans to get an idea of how football used to be when it was a sport
Yeah, can you imagine one of today’s players walking down the street after training? They are more likely to speed past you in their Hummer or Baby Bentley!
Could you imagine players coaching youngsters in schools like Pop Robson and Harry Redknapp did in the early 1970s? No, it might infringe their image rights! lol.
Good article, but I don't think you can talk about the Hammers of the 50's without acknowledging the huge influence of Malcolm Allison. Many believe it was his input that put the Hammers on the road to greater success that started, ironically, after he had to give up playing following illness. Even Mooro admits that it was Allison that was key to his success as a player
Malcolm Allison was a no nonsense sort centre half. He was definitely a far greater coach then player. Yes, it is undoubtedly the case that Allison had a great influence on the West Ham of the 1950s.
Like Greenwood, Allison understood the lessons of 1953 and Hungary’s defeat of England. He identified and adapted innovations from tactics, training methods to light weight boots and kit!
Great Blog Iain. I'm really looking forward to reading some of the comments.
My father was born a couple of hundred yards from the ground in Compton Avenue where he grew up until leaving home to serve in Malaysia with the Royal Marine Commandos.
Although not connected to the actual football played the old man told me about the fact that he used to have a paper round in the area and, one wartime morning, whilst delivering the papers a bomb dropped and hit near one of the corners of the ground blowing the roof off one of the stands. He attributed much of the resolve of the East End of London, to defeat Hitler's evil mob, by that one event. How dare they destroy a great chunk of the sacred ground!!
His favourite player that he recounts seeing was a winger called Harry Hooper who he thought was a quick, exciting and creative player who could take on and get round opposition players. He also delivered a great ball in to the box. An old fashioned winger if you like.
Hello gave mate, this one isn't Iains post, it's SJ Chandos's
Cheers Matt – I only read in the text "Last week some senior fans posted on the SJ Chandos introductory blog recalling this era," and presumed that he didn't write about himself in the third person like Alan Shearer used to say "If it's good for Alan Shearer then Alan Shearer will do it."
Sorry SJ – Didn't see your name at the foot of the blog. :$
That’s ok Gav, I was just quoting the title of the blog, SJ Chandos -An Introduction!
No probs mate! How are ya anyway?
I said I wasn't going to come back here as much but have a spare few days on my hands lol!
Matt
Up & Down mate – Like Tower Bridge &, come to think of it, West Ham.
I've not had as much time for the blog of late either. Have got used to the new format now – it's pretty good I reckon.
Nice to see that the "About" section of the site is still intact. It's good to read stories of how people became Hammers fans, their first games and other interesting facts. Without giving away any info that I shouldn't it was a nice way of getting to know the commenters on here a little better.
Pesonally mate, I don't like the new format! It's most of the reason that I have decided to limit my time here!
It just seems to have lost its charm as a blog! Messages are all over the place and there is so many bugs!
Too many posts and nothing like Iains blog that I joined all that time ago!
In my opinion, the blog should have been left as it was with a forum attached so we could all share our views without going offf topic.
I spoke to Iain about it and he decided it was a good idea, I even set one up for him (at my cost) and he seemed to cold on it so I have been a bit miffed to say the least
Anyway, enough of my bitching! lol
Hmmmm? I hadn't thought about it much but I'm now wondering if that's the reason I've been on less of late. I think, however, that it's more to do with work
Maybe mate! What ya do for a living then?
Sales bloke primarily to the NHS & Education. Possibly not for much longer if they have their way!
Oh blimey! That bad eh?
What do you sell? Not medical supplies is it? lol! If it is, I have a bone to pick with you! lol
Hehehe
No mate – IT type kit to the primary sector mainly.
In fairness it's not that bad. What's the worst that could happen? (same sentiment as my faith in West Ham really – lol)
Hmmm worst that could happen? You could get demoted and spend the next 5 years with the lowlife that you hate and with that one guy that you got demoted and then got a massive fine for soing so!
Same sentiments as MY faith in West Ham! lol!
Lmao!
Hello Matt, how are you?
Gav, Harry Hooper was a bit of a cult hero at West Ham. His sale to Wolves was very traumatic for the fans of the era!
I wonder, by comparison, how those feelings ran compared with when Joe Cole went?
He was from the North East originally wasn't he? We've brought through a few decent players from that part of the world.
My family have strong links with West Ham (Both supporting and playing for) and I have always taken an interest in pur history and is, of course the reason I support them
Ted Fenton wrote a book at home with the hammers. I have a copy somewhere last read it 40 years ago. It went through that era and promotion. I
Yep, a fanastic read Tel. Every Hammers fan should refer to it to understand just how the foundations of the 1960s resurgence were laid in the 1950s under Fenton and, indeed, Allison!
I feel sorry for Fenton. It has become fashionable to attribute everything to Allison’s influence and belittle Fenton’s management. But was Allison around in 1957/58, I thought he was away recovering from TB? Surely that promotion campaign was Fenton’s achievement.
I also feel sorry for Malcolm losing out in selection for the home Manchester Utd fixture in 1958/59, on the recommendation of club captain Noel Cantwell. But Fenton’s decision did lead to Bobby Moore’s debut. I also think the West Ham board were wrong to block Allison’s later appointment as youth team coach. He had obviously upset the club’s hierarchy?
Matt posts on here and is related to Malcolm. It would be good if he could throw some light on the Allison-Fenton relationship?
That just proves it was always going to be heartache West Ham won 5-3 on the day I was born and won their last (major)trophy in 1980 ( I immigrated here in 81 just after the 2nd div was won just before defeat to Liverpool in the league cup) and now you tell me the best season we ever had was the first full one I was alive for GREAT "like my dreams they fade and die"
Do you think West Ham are West Ham because of our song or did the pessimistic song catch on because of West Ham being West Ham
COYI
Keep the faith Deane. The next time we win a major trophy it will be something to behold. Rare, special, spectacular, amazing and breathtaking.
again i posted a comment again it was not shown.thi blog is becoming tiresome.it was much better before
Ok guys. we are in the bottom three (18th) and I'm sure I don't need to tell anyone what that means!
I know it is relatively early in the season and we have a game or 2 in hand but one of those games is against on the on-form and newly refurbished Man City on Monday so I can't see us moving out this week.
Our next 4 fixtures are against Fulham, Stoke, Arsenal and Sunderland – all of which have found a decent run of form lately!
I know you all think I'm being pesimistic but these are quite worrying times!
Matt
Well, it's still really early yet and I reckon we're capable of competing with a lot of teams. We've got a lot to work on, including maintaining our concentration for the full ninety minutes, but I don't reckon it's time to start fearing the worst.
While we're on the subject of having a look back on the history of the club, I've started a blog taking a look back at old programmes, if anyone is interested in taking a look.
http://whumg.thinend-wedge.co.uk/
COYI!
I spoke to my day earlier today, after I'd posted the comment above, and mentioned that I'd recounted the story of the bomb on here. He gave a bit more detail that it was a V1 (Doodlebug I think they were called) and that it hit inside the ground whilst he was delivering papers in Priory Road.
He went on to describe "The Proper Fans – not like you lot today." I guess we'll never have those Halcyon days back again – eh? He was one of those kids being passed over heads in the North bank – earlier than the 50's.
Let's hope that those values and community spirit one day return to Upton Park – the home of the "Academy of Football."
I really hope to see more stories of the old West Ham here. It would be disappointing for me if there weren't more.
Until then – as one of the youngsters – COYI!!!!
We can but live in hope Gav! Unfortunately its a very different world now, but I like to think that community spirit and duty to others will yet make a come back!
CJ, thanks for the mention. Those were very special days when the players and fans were much closer together. I posted, some time ago, my memories as a schoolboy at Plaistow Grammar going to the chippy at the Greengate at lunchtime and invariably seeing Terry Woodgate, walking along Prince Regent Lane after a moning's training. Also seeing a group of players one summer, in the late 40s, including Woodgate, Ernie Gregory, Dickie Walker (the Club Captain) and Ernie Devlin, digging out an air-raid shelter from our neighbour's garden in Forest Gate. This was in order to earn a few bob during the summer months when they received little or no pay at all.
I should also like to endorse the views of Simon of Gravesend about the enormous influence of the colourful Malcolm Allison on the development of the modern West Ham. He was a great footballing Center Half, who unfortunately had to stop playing when he developed tuberculosis; but he made a major contribution in preparing the development of the West Ham of the 60s and 70s, even though he had, by that time, gone on to manage other clubs.
Hotmort, was Ernie Devlin not one of the contingent of Irish players that starred for the Hammers in the 1950s?
What is your view on Fenton?
Dickie Walker! I think that Allison was bought from Charlton Athletic to replace him at centre half? I believe that Walker left the club allegedly on bad terms and joined the back room staff at Spurs. He become a fixture there under Rowley and Nicholson!
Another short reminiscence that perhaps captures the flavour of the early 50s. In those days the FA cup was a much bigger event than today. It was the only cup at the time, long before competitive European club football came to these shores. I still remember the FA Cup ties against Blackpool, then in the First Division and including the great Stanley Mathews. Those were the big matches of the the season for the second division Hammers. I also just found this link on the net that gives a detailed biography of Mal Allison and his time at Upton Park. It is an interesting read:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/WHallisonM.h…
That was a fantastic link. I'd been wondering why I'd seen mention of Malcolm Allison playing for Romford reserves in an old programme from 1960, at home to Bolton, that I'd featured on my blog. I've updated the post now and added the link. Thanks a lot.
Thanks for sharing your recollections Hotmort, but what about the 1957/58 team? I never saw them play, but from what I have read Bond and Cantwell were absolutely key to that promotion side. I believe that it is also true that both players filled in at centre forward at various times. I understand that John Bond was particularly good as well. As for Cantwell, well most people talk about Lampard Snr and Julian Dicks for the left-back spot in their best of all time XI, but I think that Cantwell was better than both of them.
I would certainly have certainly liked to have seen Johnny Dick and Vic Keeble play. They were a lethal combination, and Keeble’s early retirement through injury was a tragedy for both the player and the club!
After Keeble retired we did play Cantwell & Bond at C F ,Bondy actually scored a hat trick V Bolton a free kick from all of 25yds he could really hit a ball hence the nick name muffin the mule! a header & a pen,wish he'd played the othere night lol!
Can anyone remember Harry Obeney a half back also playing C F?he did ok too & used to run himself into the ground for the team.
C J Dick & Keeble formed a great understanding Vic would head the ball into the path of Dick who would lash it into the net with his trusty left peg,he only used the right one to stop him falling over lol!
Bernie Bonds, what about Billy Dare, did you rate him? Also what about the young Hammers starlet John Smith, was he as good as people said? His move to Spurs was disaster for him as a player.
The other player that is always spoken highly of is Harry Hooper, who I think moved to Wolves?
C J,Billy was a good player but not great & was too small for a C F,Having said that so was Budgie Byrne & he was class so what do i know!
John Smiths move to Spurs ruined him imo because they had Blanchflower & Makay 2 great players + they won the double that season so he never got a look in,As part of the deal we got Dave Dunmore a C F we badly needed at the time.
I remember almost crying when we sold Hooper who was my favourite player.
Yeah Bernie, my father told me many stories about Johnny Dick’s scoring exploits. He used to say, now there was a proper striker!
I ran some statistics a while ago on West Ham Strikers scoring rates (in a sad, geeky moment). I did it on a goals per minute basis and Vic Keeble came out as our most prolific striker in the history of the club. I'll re-edit this later on with the top 5 stats.
Update
It was actually goals per game but here goes: –
Frank Neary Feb-Sep '47-goals15-games17-GpG Ratio 88.24:100
David Lloyd 1898-99 -goals-13-games-15-GpG Ratio 86.67:100
Dave Magnall 1935-36 -goals-30-games-37-GpG Ratio 81.08:100
Victor Watson 1920-37 -goals-326-games-505-GpG Ratio 64.55:100
Vic Keeble 1957-60 -goals-51-games-84-GpG Ratio 60.71:100
(Source – West Ham Statistics <a href="http://www.westhamstats.info)” target=”_blank”>http://www.westhamstats.info)
If you apply a rule that a player has to have played at least 50 games for us then Victor Watson (not Vic Keeble) is the top banana, scoring in 64.55% of his games with Vic Keeble in second at 60.71%.
Any strikers called Vic available in the January transfer window do you reckon?
I have wonderful memories of that era especially the 57/8 season in which my father took me to many games. I remember a tough game against Liverpool that season in which Billy Liddell opened the scoring for the visitors. I must agree on the influence of Malcolm Allison but would cite the policy decision of all players having to attend the FA training course at Lilleshall as a big factor in the number of managers the club produced. My greatest memory must be the electric atmosphere created by the Bubbles song seeing the crowd in the old Chicken Run swaying from side to side to the song.
Nice screen name vickeeble, many people forget what a great striker Keeble was. He was the final peice in Fenton’s promotion jigsaw, much like Johnny Bryne was the final peice in Greenwood’s 1964 team!
Fenton did not hold out much hope of getting Keeble from Newcastle Utd, who were a very big team in the 1950s, but they did a deal and it was vital to our promoton. He combined really well with John Dick and thrived on the service from the wings provided by Grice and Musgrove.
However, there was another striker called Billy Dare, who did a really good job filling in for Keeble. He was not a particularly big player, but he was really good in timing his runs and out jumping bigger defenders!
Old John, where are you? I would be interested in your views on the 1950s!
I was always intrigued by the 'mysterious circumstances' that led to Ted Fenton's sacking.
Can anyone shed any more light on this?
The littlle I've heard and read on this suggests there was a degree of 'player power' that forced him out, with Malcolm Allsion at the forefront of this?
The players wanting a more modern and tactically astute manager? And the board duly obliged by sacking Fenton and appointing Greenwood, who was a coach at Arsenal and gaining a reputation as a modern innovator.
Or have there been suggestion that there was something dodgy going on with Fenton? Hence being treated as a 'non-person' after leaving?
I hope that this helps Clack:
On 16th March 1961 the chairman of the club stated: “For some time, Mr Fenton had been working under quite a strain and it was agreed that he should go on sick leave. For the time being, we shall carry on by making certain adjustments in our internal administration.”
Malcolm Allison later claimed that “Ted Fenton got the sack. They were rebuilding the stand and he was pinching some bricks and paint. Putting it in the back of the car. One of the directors caught him.” Ken Tucker thought he had been dismissed because he had negotiated a reduction in the price of equipment, but was only passing on a percentage of the savings to the club. However, Andy Smillie believes that Fenton was a victim of “player power”.
Regardless of what Allison and others said, the club have never disclosed the precise reasons for Fenton’s dismissal. Instead they persisted with the official line that he resigned due to health concerns!
Perhaps the truth is more mundane, in that results were poor in 1960/61 and the Board just chose to get in another manager?
In his autobiography, At Home With the Hammers (1960) Fenton pointed out:
“The only way to build the club was youth. There were lots of good players around, but I had no money to buy the key players we needed. There was always the problems of running a club on a shoe-string.”
Sound familiar? Lol.