My first game at Upton Park was in 1977 against Chelsea. As I walked with my father from the tube down Green Street I felt as if I was walking through a war zone. I was a very frightened 14 year old. So my thoughts drift to those kids who were attending last night’s match. How many of them will ever want to go again?
I wasn’t there as I am on holiday this week. Over the last few hours I have thought a lot about my own reaction to events if I had been sitting in my normal seat in Row X of the West Stand. I think I would have been seething with anger at how so many mindless idiots could have brought such shame on the club we love. I suspect I would have left the ground at half time.
I think we have to differentiate what happened outside the ground from what happened inside. From the evidence we have so far it seems pretty obvious that much of the trouble outside had been pre-arranged between the mindless thugs who call themselves West Ham and Millwall fans, but are in fact vicious hooligans with no interest in football at all. A lot of the fighting outside the ground continued after the game had started. Few of those involved had tickets, so they had mostly come to the ground with one intention – to have a fight.
You and I might not understand the mentality that is involved here and a lot of us had hoped it had died away with the generation that used to get off on this sort of thing in the 1970s and 1980s. But it’s like a virus. It can lie dormant for years before rearing its ugly head again.
I don’t know how many Police were on duty last night. One commenter suggested that there were only 300 officers in and around the ground, compared to 900 the last time we played Millwall. If so, the Police have some questions to answer, but from the evidence displayed so far, they did all they reasonably could.
Inside the ground, from the pictures I have seen, the pitch invasions were all conducted by West Ham supporters. The stewards did their best, but most were understandably deployed at the Millwall end. Questions will no doubt be raised about whether West Ham had deployed enough stewards.
Exuberance is one thing. Mindless pitch invasions are another. When you see fifty year old men in suits parading about the pitch, when you see a mother with a small child running from one side to the other you really have to question their value sets. What kind of example is this woman setting to her seven year old, who when he is 14, will no doubt do the same thing again (on his own) and see nothing wrong with it.
The media is understandably working itself up into a frenzy. The events of last night play into the hands of those who have always viewed our club in a particular way. Those of us who think of ourselves as true fans are horrified, embarrassed and ashamed by what happened.
And I hope those of us who are true fans and who witnessed some of the despicable events of last night will have no reservation in giving their accounts to the club and the authorities.
The club cannot be held responsible for what happens outside the ground, but it can ban for life anyone who was responsible for the violence that ensued. But anyone who invaded the pitch or was involved in violence against the stewards also deserves all that is coming to them.
One suggestion I would make is that in future, all season ticket cards should have photos on them. That would make it far easier to identify the guilty parties involved in violence.
I hate the fact that instead of talking about a victory, or transfer targets, we are having to discuss the acts of what I would normally call a mindless few. But it wasn’t just a few, was it? Looking at the pictures on Sky, it wasn’t just a few dozen who took part in this. Indeed, it wasn’t just a few hundred. And that’s the thing we should all be very worried about.
And another thing we should also worry about is the reaction of Zola and his transfer targets to the events of yesterday evening. If you were Allessandro Diamanti, or Pandev, or Chamakh, would you want to come to a club with supporters who acted like that?
Well, would you?
Also, spare a thought for the local businesses and homeowners who now face bills or hundreds if not thousands of pounds, as well as rocketing insurance premiums.
Finally, it pains me to say it, but the odds are that on a blog with 35,000 individual readers, one or two of you were involved in what happened last night. Were you involved in the fighting outside the ground? Did you invade the pitch?
If so, perhaps you’d do us a favour and try to explain yourself. And when you’ve done that you can apologise to all those you have brought collective shame on through your mindless yobbery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdJNu_KtA-4&feature=player_embedded
Very wise piece on the game from Peter Preston (didn’t know he was a Millwall fan):
http://bit.ly/J5HhP
Seems some folk do “get it”!
Jon.london makes a point about the police.
They made a lot of bad decisions that exacerbated the situation yesterday.
I know we’re not supposed to criticise the police because they’re not responsible for the appalling behaviour of the morons but implicit in the word “policing” is the anticipation and planned strategic response to anti-civic activity.
Upton Park tube was closed an hour before the stabbing, fans (or non fans) of both clubs were left unstewarded on the streets walking in together from Plaistow, I got caught up in a police cordon on Green Street that didn’t know what it was doing & the batons were flailing in the ground.
People in the side streets were left exposed to the violence, sometimes actually forcibly directed into it by officers.
It was terrible & I’d swear that incompetent policing played into the hands of the organisers of the violence. On Sunday I thought they screwed things up on Green St overeacting and charging at people singing etc. The handling of the Napoli game was equally counter productive.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist at all but frankly the police might as well have met both sets of thugs in advance to jointly organsise how to make things as torrid as possible for old times sake.
That is now three games out of three this season where the police have got it badly wrong on Green St. The infamous Newham Parks Constabulary couldn’t have done much worse.
And the thugs were mostly fat old boys, male menopausal ex hooligans taking their chance for a hooligans reunion. Or Green St movie wannabes. Pitiful, pathetic grotesques. Disgusting.
The club is also at fault over ticketing policy, the £15 entry setting up the potential for the pitch invasions from a set of one-off visitors.
I think a lot of you are getting carried away saying supporters of other teams were involved,believe me they were not,there is big history between us and i would say there are thousands on each side who are prepared to get involved to claim title of champions as both our football teams are a million miles from that in football terms,bad blood between us will go on beyond our lifetimes and has done for nearly 100 yuears and only the fact that we rarely play them prevents this happening regularly.
look, it wasn’t pretty; I wish it hadn’t happened and I hope those that can be identfied are and barred in fuure but let’s get it into perspective; there were ten arrests, as far as I know. What happened can been seen in any town or city centre on any Fri or Sat night. Because of the attachment to football everyone and his mum have been falling over to comment .. yes I know including me.. no doubt before the day is out the Pope and Bank Ki-Moon willhave added thier coments; that’s 24 hour news for you it’ll gobble up a scrap and spew it out as a riot. I feel slightly queasy about agreeing with a caller on five live – ahmed, who unlike me was there- who said he’d never attended such an emotionally charged game for yearsa nd felt better for it .. no one died.. move on.
The sun is saying that Diamanti is in East London for a medical today!
Who cares, hes shit. We need Pandev!
Bora! Good attitude mate! We aint getting Pandev!
DIamanti is NOT shit!
I think now any cup match or london games could result in West Ham playing behind closed doors. Is this what west ham fans want?. If we make Europe this yr we may be throw out because of the behaviour of West Ham fans ( Not all of you, You Know who you are) BIG Brother is Now Watching YOU!!
And you will be BAN for LIFE going to any game.
Richard, I assume you are not a West Ham fan? We won’t have to play any cup or London games behind closed doors!
The FA know it was the presence of Millscum that caused this reaction! We have had a pretty impecable record in recent years!
They also know that the idiots that rioted and invaded the pitch were there for trouble! They aren’t real fans and probably haven’t been to a game for 20 years! They just came for the ‘pre-aaranged’ meet!
We will get a fine and that will be it!
The vast majority of posters, if not all, condemned outright the violence and idiocy of the few last night. CCTV will catch some but not all of those guilty, and also at a great cost in terms of effort and money.
If it is truly the case that YOU condemn all of those stupid idiots who invaded the pitch, and those who caused trouble and incited violence outside, then I challenge YOU to do your utmost to name and shame all of those guilty to assist the police in identifying those to blame. Watch those Youtube clips again and again. None of this “I won’t shop anyone to the police” stuff.
http://www.channel4.com/news/article.jsp?id=3321602&time=151721
More video from last night – before the game
The last time I remember scenes like this at Upton Park must be in the 70′s, against Man Utd when they had a real fan problem. For several decades the ground and surroundings are have felt totally safe. It may have been going off elsewhere but you had to look hard for it.
The resemblences to the movie Green Street are weird.
What is so strange is that the main Hammers fans invasion happened when we equalised, so it could hardly be a bid to stop the game. “Thought processes” is probably putting it a bit strong, but what on earth were they thinking? And the number of 30 and 40 year olds on the pitch was amazing. Maybe youngsters can’t afford to go to football any more.
Outside the trouble seemed to be predominantly Millwall inspired. That name crops up far too often. They have a rotteness about their support which far exceeds most other clubs, certainly the worst in the capital.
Whatever else happens, I’m afraid the minimum punishment for both clubs has to be several games played behind closed doors. Lousy for the 98% of true, decent, fans, but justice has to be seen to be done.
Condolences to Jack Collison, and a herogram for turning out last night. Hang in there kid.
I forgot to add:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meJ6X2BSW_U
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/hullcity/4336569/Hull-City-condemn-hooligans-who-marred-FA-Cup-clash-with-Millwall.html
This was just 8 months ago. The Millwall lot were really heated and having to be chaperoned by a large police presence before they even got into the stadium. I am not saying these were the same lot who were at the Boleyn last night – clearly those inside were, from what I can read, well behaved.
Coincidentally I was also at teh KC stadium the previous October for the West Ham game, and whilst being very vocal in support of our team during the game, the Hammers supporters were well behaved.
More video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX_GTIl6cys&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ekumb%2Ecom%2Fstory%2Ephp%3Fid%3D124376&feature=player_embedded#t=81
I am very sadden and appalled by the minority of idiots who, have now brought all the West Ham haters out of the woodwork with sharpened teeth.
This is not a local event that took place, we are now globally being looked upon, and not in a positive way.
If you mindless idiots think this has improved our chances of a wealthy owner looking upon us as a “great investment” and a asset. Well shove your uneducated heads back in the sand again. You might have screwed us up in many ways, for many years to come!
For Copllison….My heart cries for you Mate. This should have been your night and the spotlight should have been on you. Be strong Lad, you have a clear path in front of you leading to stardom.
i dont condem any of the fighting but i was at the game in the bobby moore lower and the atmosphere was electric and i think it started getting nasty inside when news travelled around the ground a west ham supporter had been stabbed then sky news and that started reporting there was mass trouble outside which rallied alot of people inside the ground and i also dont think police helped, maybe if they gave millwall there 3000 tickets many wouldnt have turned up outside just for trouble….not all but many. its a shame because it was an electric atmosphere last night one that upton park should always have (less the violence) but i truly no this was a one off as it was a cup game against our biggest rivals that we aint played for some time and may not play em for even longer……unles we draw em in the fa cup that is.
Matt,
I am a west ham fan and have been for 35 yrs. I like you don’t want to play any ghames behind closed doors. But if FA want to set an example they may choose to?.
My son (14 Years)and I went to West Ham last night and we were greeted at Upton Park station (just outside tube)by a bank of yobs and police trying desperately to calm things down.
My son and I went up the side road beside chip shop and parralel to the railway track and found 2 policemen who were discussing the trouble that had started.They were just about to ask for reinforcements.
I asked wht we could do as Green Street had been cut off and there were yobs throwing bottles and things so my son was obviously a little frightened.
The policemen told us to go round the back doubles and keep away from Green Street which we done although I had no idea where we were walking but just used mt sense of direction which eventually took us opposite of the Boleyn Ground and we had made it to the ground in one peice!
During the game we saw mindless idiots of whom some were as pld as me and should have known better and we were shouting to them to get off the pitch to no avail.
It was very upsetting to witness those scenes especially for my son who has now said he will never go to another West Ham v Millwall again,which is a shame.
Seeing these scenes at our club is terrible. We have been through so much in the past few years as fans of this great club and seemed to be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I hope that the authorities see this for what it is and not the problem of WHU or the product of it’s fans but i can’t see common sense prevaling as we are to easy a target at present. I did not post after Jack Collisons sad, sad loss due to feeling so sorry for the lad and wanting to post the right words but now i feel so much more sorry for him. He showed real character and bravery by playing and although the piece by MS in the daily mail is a pile of **** the picture of Jack should shame everyone involed, including those who ran onto the pitch ‘in over exuberance’. Of course this will not be the case as not one ‘person’ involved in the pathetic goings on last night has one ounce of the bravery and dignaty of Jack Collison. Jack my whole families thoughts are with you and all your family.
I wont exonerate anyone for the disgusting behaviour, but it was clear it was going to happen as soon as the fixture was announced. Why werent the police and the club better prepared? You only had to look at the clubs histories and read a few WHU message boards to see what was going to happen.
I also think a certain violence-celebrating movie has a lot to answer for about what went on last night in the street after which it was named.
Not one word of which excuses anyone
I think we need to be careful not to get over hysterical about this. West Ham are not being villified in Outer Mongolia and all points east and west at present. I’m certainly not ashamned to be a West Ham fan. Properly policed most of the problems wouldn’t have occurred. The people who are over reacting also need to remember that there were over 22,000 Hammers fans in the ground who were not fighting or running on the pitch so let’s have some proportionality. It’s bad enough reading garbage in the press never mind from West Ham fans who are taking Phil Thompson’s rantings on Sky Sports as an authortive report as to what went on inside the ground.
Hi Kim; Firstly this is not having a go at you but looking at the replay’s re crowd trouble in the ground with people trying to get onto the pitch in front of the Millwall fans,coupled with a couple of hundred mindless idiots who were running onto the pitch after we scored,say totall 400 to 500 people. Yes,compared to 23 to 25,000 fans that were there,that is a small minority.
BUT,my 14 year old who was there was frightened at these scenes,plus the 2,000 or so yobs that were outside the tube station and cut off Green Street had a very bad effect on him. Is this fair?
This is my point Kim; There is no place for this in our game of football that we all love and to put my son off going to a Millwall game again is very sad indeed.
So,I do not think I am getting over hysterical. I hope you understand that from a parent point of view it was indeed a very bad thing and something that has had a bad effect on a young teenager.That can’t be right even if it is only a small minority.
That small minority should not be allowed into our game.
From the Mail:
” But banning thugs from grounds is not enough to stamp out violence in the game, according to the Metropolitan Police Federation.
The organisation, which represents the 26,000 police officers in London, said promises by West Ham and Millwall to stop anyone found responsible for the violence from watching their club again does not send out a strong enough signal.
‘Banning individuals from football grounds would not sufficiently reinforce the message that violence of the type seen at Upton Park will not be tolerated,’ said a Federation spokesman.
‘Much better to force the clubs to play matches behind closed gates or impose massive points deductions. ”
I think this is wrong. My worry is that the FA will respond to public clamour aswell as these comments by the Metropolitan Police Federation by punishing the clubs for the actions of these idiots.
There needs to be a clear distinction between the correct responsibility of the clubs to adequately ensure the safety of those at the game, and the error in holding the clubs responsible for the actions of individuals. The responsibility is for dealing with the behaviour not for the behaviour in itself. To take action because of insufficient stewarding or failing to keep people off the pitch is one thing, but to punish clubs for the actions of the idiots on Tuesday, especially those outside the ground, is wrong. The people who fight don’t care about football or league positions or what the players or fans think, just about their reputation for violence. Punishing the clubs would be to give power and status to those who we have been trying to disassociate from football. It is the individuals alone that must be punished for their actions. I’d like to see them tagged and any football related tattoos surgically removed but that’s just my opinion.
The whole problem with this situation is that idiots move the masses. It is just like Newton’s 3rd law “To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.” So it usually only takes one person to start the mayhem and then it spreads like wildfire. I don’t condone the justification for retaliation, but it will happen no matter what we try to do to prevent a situation like this from occurring.
It is a shame that the FA is considering the idea of ejecting West Ham from the Carling cup because of the few idiots. I feel sorry for the honest football loving fans that go to the match just for the love of the sport.
[...] suppose I ought to show a kind of willing and repost this by Iain Dale: Finally, it pains me to say it, but the odds are that on a blog with 35,000 [...]
To the guy who takes kids to WestHam against Millwall, you are obviously not a long time hammers fan, This fixture warms the heart of all who have ever been in a firm no matter what club and if you who brought kids, the club with the amount of stewarding and the plod with there paltry turn out did not see it coming,then this will be allowed to nuture like it did in the early eighties.
The numpties who ran on the pitch was not expected and this you could say are the once in a blue moon have a row charlies and should be barred for life.
The boys having it outside had a whale of a time, no bans, few arrests and rows from new cross to tower hill along commercial road, the lot.
The east end has always been a place to come and enjoy the hospitality etc but if you come and take liberties then there will be retribution and cockneys seem to have a long memory, millwall, leeds, spuds, chelsea, that crowd in madrid, Lincoln?.
Football is only the Glue that holds it together, it could well be any pub in any town, if you walked in mouthing off and taking liberties then someone will give you a spank, it happen every minute of every day in all parts of the country. This is the life that the underclasses live in every day and anyone who doesnt believe needs to spend a few days with the real people.
Matt,
In the mirror today 28th August. they are running a story about West Ham playing the next Caring Cup game behind closed doors.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/West-Ham-facing-ground-closure-after-Millwall-riots-article133275.html
You may want to read. This was I worried about when I first posted my concerns. You appeared to think that I wasn’t a west Ham fan!!!.
Dear Mick; Please don’t think you have all the answers mate re me not supporting West Ham that long.
I have been going to West Ham for some 40 odd years now and I and MY SON have been season ticket holders for 8 years.
We are in the Automatic Cup Scheme,which means we already had been allocated the tickets without asking for them,and even if I had phoned and asked for them the question is; Why shouldn’t we go to see our team who we love to see every home game and some away.
We are true supporters and NOT THUGS!!
I will not let these mindless idiots turn me away from the game I love.
Some of these morans were at the Southend Utd game last week and they were talking about getting a few of the “Mob”out to take on the ‘Ammers!
Some of them don’t even like football and just went along for the punch ups. These non football yobs were planning this in the pubs across London and just dedcided to turn up because it would be the place to go for a ruck.
As I said Mick I don’t have all the answers but don’t assume you do by thinking you know what people get up to.
We are genuine and long time supporters and I hope all the yobs who turned up to spoil others enjoyment get their punishment as I have no time for these idiots.
As a foreigner to the UK, I have not been a Hammers fan for as long as most of you, I fell for the Hammers magic when I moved to the Isle of Dogs and watched Pards guide us back into the top flight and then all way to the FA Cup Final.
What I really captured me was:
- the way Westham play football, the way it should be,
- the fact that there were (and still are) no heros/ primadonnas at the club, just honest hard working players.
- My first live game at Upton Park vs Chelsea showed me just what a passionate bunch of fans we really are (I especially enjoyed the first time I heard the song comparing Lamps to a fat Paul Ince!)
What I wasn’t impressed by was this history of the club’s hooliganism glorified in movies and so on. Even after understanding from talking to locals where it all started (especially with Millwall), I still think it is something that should confined to the past, like trench warfare World War one. There is just no place for such actions in modern society.
I am horrified to see this behaviour back in the modern game and it is the first time I have experienced being embarrassed as a Hammer. When my Spurs supporting mates tease me about a bad result, I can always stand up for the Hammers by pointing out something good. At the moment I find it hard to stand up for Hammers fans. We should all be ashamed.
[...] A Night That Brought Shame on the Club We Love « West Ham Till I Die [...]